Wood Burning Stones
08 October 2010, 03:10 PM
#1
Wood Burning Stones
In preparation for years of Tory Hardship I plan to install a Wood Burner and scavenge Pallets and sticks to keep my family warm through the harsh winters due to global warming.
So, in anticipation, anyone got one, any pointers, how much do I need to pay, are they any good, what do you need to do Chimney wise ?
Slight urgency as am felling two Silver Birches in the back garden, they will keep the house warm for weeks, dead and dry as a bone.
So, in anticipation, anyone got one, any pointers, how much do I need to pay, are they any good, what do you need to do Chimney wise ?
Slight urgency as am felling two Silver Birches in the back garden, they will keep the house warm for weeks, dead and dry as a bone.
08 October 2010, 03:17 PM
#3
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Got something called a Belfort from Fonderies Franco Belges. Seems to do a good job with flue in a regular fireplace. Chimney needs an annual brush from the Sweep.
Not sure about trying to burn stones in it though.
Not sure about trying to burn stones in it though.
08 October 2010, 03:18 PM
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Don't think stones will keep you warm
Birch is a fast burner too so will deminish your stocks pretty quickly.
Going back to the old woodsmans rhyme, this helps select the right woods for fires.
ogs to Burn, Logs to burn, Logs to burn,
Logs to save the coal a turn,
Here's a word to make you wise,
When you hear the woodman's cries.
Never heed his usual tale,
That he has good logs for sale,
But read these lines and really learn,
The proper kind of logs to burn.
Oak logs will warm you well,
If they're old and dry.
Larch logs of pine will smell,
But the sparks will fly.
Beech logs for Christmas time,
Yew logs heat well.
"Scotch" logs it is a crime,
For anyone to sell.
Birch logs will burn too fast,
Chestnut scarce at all.
Hawthorn logs are good to last,
If you cut them in the fall.
Holly logs will burn like wax,
You should burn them green,
Elm logs like smouldering flax,
No flame to be seen.
Pear logs and apple logs,
They will scent your room,
Cherry logs across the dogs,
Smell like flowers in bloom.
But ash logs, all smooth and grey,
Burn them green or old;
Buy up all that come your way,
They're worth their weight in gold.
Wouldn't use old pallets as they are usually treated with chemicals that aren't nice in enclosed evnironments.
Birch is a fast burner too so will deminish your stocks pretty quickly.
Going back to the old woodsmans rhyme, this helps select the right woods for fires.
ogs to Burn, Logs to burn, Logs to burn,
Logs to save the coal a turn,
Here's a word to make you wise,
When you hear the woodman's cries.
Never heed his usual tale,
That he has good logs for sale,
But read these lines and really learn,
The proper kind of logs to burn.
Oak logs will warm you well,
If they're old and dry.
Larch logs of pine will smell,
But the sparks will fly.
Beech logs for Christmas time,
Yew logs heat well.
"Scotch" logs it is a crime,
For anyone to sell.
Birch logs will burn too fast,
Chestnut scarce at all.
Hawthorn logs are good to last,
If you cut them in the fall.
Holly logs will burn like wax,
You should burn them green,
Elm logs like smouldering flax,
No flame to be seen.
Pear logs and apple logs,
They will scent your room,
Cherry logs across the dogs,
Smell like flowers in bloom.
But ash logs, all smooth and grey,
Burn them green or old;
Buy up all that come your way,
They're worth their weight in gold.
Wouldn't use old pallets as they are usually treated with chemicals that aren't nice in enclosed evnironments.
08 October 2010, 03:18 PM
#5
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Don't think stones will keep you warm
Birch is a fast burner too so will deminish your stocks pretty quickly.
Going back to the old woodsmans rhyme, this helps select the right woods for fires.
ogs to Burn, Logs to burn, Logs to burn,
Logs to save the coal a turn,
Here's a word to make you wise,
When you hear the woodman's cries.
Never heed his usual tale,
That he has good logs for sale,
But read these lines and really learn,
The proper kind of logs to burn.
Oak logs will warm you well,
If they're old and dry.
Larch logs of pine will smell,
But the sparks will fly.
Beech logs for Christmas time,
Yew logs heat well.
"Scotch" logs it is a crime,
For anyone to sell.
Birch logs will burn too fast,
Chestnut scarce at all.
Hawthorn logs are good to last,
If you cut them in the fall.
Holly logs will burn like wax,
You should burn them green,
Elm logs like smouldering flax,
No flame to be seen.
Pear logs and apple logs,
They will scent your room,
Cherry logs across the dogs,
Smell like flowers in bloom.
But ash logs, all smooth and grey,
Burn them green or old;
Buy up all that come your way,
They're worth their weight in gold.
Wouldn't use old pallets as they are usually treated with chemicals that aren't nice in enclosed evnironments.
Birch is a fast burner too so will deminish your stocks pretty quickly.
Going back to the old woodsmans rhyme, this helps select the right woods for fires.
ogs to Burn, Logs to burn, Logs to burn,
Logs to save the coal a turn,
Here's a word to make you wise,
When you hear the woodman's cries.
Never heed his usual tale,
That he has good logs for sale,
But read these lines and really learn,
The proper kind of logs to burn.
Oak logs will warm you well,
If they're old and dry.
Larch logs of pine will smell,
But the sparks will fly.
Beech logs for Christmas time,
Yew logs heat well.
"Scotch" logs it is a crime,
For anyone to sell.
Birch logs will burn too fast,
Chestnut scarce at all.
Hawthorn logs are good to last,
If you cut them in the fall.
Holly logs will burn like wax,
You should burn them green,
Elm logs like smouldering flax,
No flame to be seen.
Pear logs and apple logs,
They will scent your room,
Cherry logs across the dogs,
Smell like flowers in bloom.
But ash logs, all smooth and grey,
Burn them green or old;
Buy up all that come your way,
They're worth their weight in gold.
Wouldn't use old pallets as they are usually treated with chemicals that aren't nice in enclosed evnironments.
08 October 2010, 03:38 PM
#6
Woodburning stones? How hot do the stones have to be? LOL 
We have a Hunter. It LOOKS lovely and gives off loads of heat, but it has issues, one of which is that when you open the doors to stack more logs, red hot cinders CAN fall out. At the moment, we have completely removed the grate and are burning wood on the steel base, which, according to Hunter, is OK provided you ONLY burn logs. Ours is a Herald 6. My mates French one has a door on the front for laying/starting the fire, then it loads logs from a hatch on top. Worth considering.
Our Hunter DOES have what's called an "airwash" system, which directs air down over the interior of the glass doors and effectively keeps them clean. Otherwise, you'll be at them with white vinegar every day.
Whatever you get, look for one with a damper on the chimney etc etc, the more control you have over the fire, the better. Have you thought of an inset fire? Very popular in France, circulates hot air round the room from vents in the chimney breast, etc. Easier to keep clean.
Flue: Over in France, where ours is, you are supposed to line the chimney. We have done so: 7 metres of stainless flexible liner at nearly €20 per metre. NOT cheap
Here in the UK, I'd take advice from a registered installer. Failure so to do makes your house insurance null and void in France and is probably the same here
You will almost certainly need a fireplate, which is a galvanised steel plate which is fixed horizontally across the chimney opening, and the flue passes through it. It's also good to put a couple of inches of fireproof insulation on top of it, so it gets hot and gives the heat back to the room, rather than up the chimney. You will need to be able to remove it though as an owl came down our neighbours'
The bigger the chimney opening, the more need you have for one, or most of your heat will be lost.
Heat output: Our Hunter does OK in a room 18' x 12' You can also get them with a sort of hooded top, which adds to heat output.
What to burn: Your silver birch might be OK, but wood needs to be seasoned. We don't burn anything younger than a year after it was cut. In general, the harder the wood you burn, the less tar in the chimney and the higher the heat output, plus the SLOWER the logs burn We use mostly chestnut, with some oak, as that's what our area has most of, (Limousin).
We AVOID burning rubbish, like pallets, except for a few sticks to start it with. They tend to burn too fast and tar up the chimney, with the danger of a chimney fire
Fireplace: Needs to be big enough. Plus fire-resistant, obviously. Ours has a quarry tile hearth with a brick-tile back, and the stove stands on york-stone blocks to raise it off the floor a bit, makes for better air circulation and thus better heat output.
Weight: If you are going to DIY, take into account that ours, which is quite small, weighs in at OVER 2cwt! Takes 2 grown men to lift it.
If doing the chimney liner yourself, take into account someone has to go on the roof. I went up, dropped a weighted line down the chimney, pierced the liner, tied the line to it and shoved while wife and two kids hung on the line to drag it down. It was STILL a laugh a minute
Nearly ended with me coming down off the roof the quick way
HTH.
Any questions, PM me, glad to help.
We have a Hunter. It LOOKS lovely and gives off loads of heat, but it has issues, one of which is that when you open the doors to stack more logs, red hot cinders CAN fall out. At the moment, we have completely removed the grate and are burning wood on the steel base, which, according to Hunter, is OK provided you ONLY burn logs. Ours is a Herald 6. My mates French one has a door on the front for laying/starting the fire, then it loads logs from a hatch on top. Worth considering.
Our Hunter DOES have what's called an "airwash" system, which directs air down over the interior of the glass doors and effectively keeps them clean. Otherwise, you'll be at them with white vinegar every day.
Whatever you get, look for one with a damper on the chimney etc etc, the more control you have over the fire, the better. Have you thought of an inset fire? Very popular in France, circulates hot air round the room from vents in the chimney breast, etc. Easier to keep clean.
Flue: Over in France, where ours is, you are supposed to line the chimney. We have done so: 7 metres of stainless flexible liner at nearly €20 per metre. NOT cheap
Here in the UK, I'd take advice from a registered installer. Failure so to do makes your house insurance null and void in France and is probably the same here
You will almost certainly need a fireplate, which is a galvanised steel plate which is fixed horizontally across the chimney opening, and the flue passes through it. It's also good to put a couple of inches of fireproof insulation on top of it, so it gets hot and gives the heat back to the room, rather than up the chimney. You will need to be able to remove it though as an owl came down our neighbours'
The bigger the chimney opening, the more need you have for one, or most of your heat will be lost.Heat output: Our Hunter does OK in a room 18' x 12' You can also get them with a sort of hooded top, which adds to heat output.
What to burn: Your silver birch might be OK, but wood needs to be seasoned. We don't burn anything younger than a year after it was cut. In general, the harder the wood you burn, the less tar in the chimney and the higher the heat output, plus the SLOWER the logs burn
We use mostly chestnut, with some oak, as that's what our area has most of, (Limousin).We AVOID burning rubbish, like pallets, except for a few sticks to start it with. They tend to burn too fast and tar up the chimney, with the danger of a chimney fire
Fireplace: Needs to be big enough. Plus fire-resistant, obviously. Ours has a quarry tile hearth with a brick-tile back, and the stove stands on york-stone blocks to raise it off the floor a bit, makes for better air circulation and thus better heat output.
Weight: If you are going to DIY, take into account that ours, which is quite small, weighs in at OVER 2cwt!
Takes 2 grown men to lift it.If doing the chimney liner yourself, take into account someone has to go on the roof. I went up, dropped a weighted line down the chimney, pierced the liner, tied the line to it and shoved while wife and two kids hung on the line to drag it down. It was STILL a laugh a minute
Nearly ended with me coming down off the roof the quick wayHTH.
Any questions, PM me, glad to help.
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08 October 2010, 04:28 PM
#8
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Just spent the last couple of days splitting a metric fck-load of ash logs...I'm still not finished, but my back nearly is!
I have a home-made insert built by the previous people to live here - once lit it heats the whole house really well. The chimney is lined with a stainless flue, but mine is sectional and uses pre-formed angles etc rather than the flexible liner, so is cheaper.
The insert has a controllable air intake and a damper flap in the chimney, so is very controllable - I can load it up at night and leave it burning slowly all night and it will still be hot in the morning.
The house I am planing on moving to soon has a Godin brand free-standing thing that looks about as old as I am. I will give it a go and see how it performs, and think about replacing it if needed.
This pile is the 2nd load....
The first load is already stacked away in the woodshed...thats another thing to think about, you need dry storage for the wood, which takes up a fair bit of room.
Still got these to do tomorrow ...
I felled the trees 2 years ago, and chopped them up into 50cm slices last year, so the wood is wel seasoned, although ash can be burned green with no problems.
This beast is still luking at the bottom of the garden...
You can't tell the scale from the photo, but its too heavy fr the tractor to shift and too large for my chainsaw to cut. Dunno what to do with it really.
Realistically, there is wood for 3 - 4 years in total from this lot.
I have a home-made insert built by the previous people to live here - once lit it heats the whole house really well. The chimney is lined with a stainless flue, but mine is sectional and uses pre-formed angles etc rather than the flexible liner, so is cheaper.
The insert has a controllable air intake and a damper flap in the chimney, so is very controllable - I can load it up at night and leave it burning slowly all night and it will still be hot in the morning.
The house I am planing on moving to soon has a Godin brand free-standing thing that looks about as old as I am. I will give it a go and see how it performs, and think about replacing it if needed.
This pile is the 2nd load....
The first load is already stacked away in the woodshed...thats another thing to think about, you need dry storage for the wood, which takes up a fair bit of room.
Still got these to do tomorrow
...I felled the trees 2 years ago, and chopped them up into 50cm slices last year, so the wood is wel seasoned, although ash can be burned green with no problems.
This beast is still luking at the bottom of the garden...
You can't tell the scale from the photo, but its too heavy fr the tractor to shift and too large for my chainsaw to cut. Dunno what to do with it really.
Realistically, there is wood for 3 - 4 years in total from this lot.
Last edited by David_Dickson; 08 October 2010 at 04:32 PM.
08 October 2010, 05:32 PM
#9
David: does your tractor split the logs?
Mine come to me cut into lengths of about a metre, and we stack them in one of the barns. The come about two tonnes at a time, cost me €55 the tonne. (Around £50 now, but it WAS about £35 when we bought the house).
Later, we get them out again, and I chainsaw them to length, two at 16" and a noggin off the end for the pot-belly stove we have in the dining room.
The 16" bits are then split, if necessary, BY HAND, before being stacked again in the dry.
Now THAT's backbreaking work.
BTW: most people round our French area stack their logs for burning outside, just cover them with a tarp, leaving the sides open
Mine come to me cut into lengths of about a metre, and we stack them in one of the barns. The come about two tonnes at a time, cost me €55 the tonne. (Around £50 now, but it WAS about £35 when we bought the house).
Later, we get them out again, and I chainsaw them to length, two at 16" and a noggin off the end for the pot-belly stove we have in the dining room.
The 16" bits are then split, if necessary, BY HAND, before being stacked again in the dry.
Now THAT's backbreaking work.
BTW: most people round our French area stack their logs for burning outside, just cover them with a tarp, leaving the sides open
08 October 2010, 08:38 PM
#10
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I used to do them by hand, and generally still do, but with such a large amount to do this time, I borrowed the hydraulic log splitter, which the the green affair on the back of the tractor. It has its own pump that is powered by the tractors PTO driveshaft, but you can get them as stand-alone things with electric motors. Besides, some of the trunks I am splitting are over a meter in diameter...I tried one with the merlin, but it completely failed to do anything but leave little nicks on the surface!
As far as I am aware, stacking the wood outside under a tarp is to season it. It dries better if the wind can circulate in and around the stack, with the tarp to keep the rain off obviously. People round here tend to uncover them in summer too, to let the sun at them. This stuff is already seasoned so no need for that, I just shove it in the woodshed.
I dunno about paying by the tonne, I always worked it out by the stere, which is a cubic meter of 1m lengths, and anywhere from 35€ - 70€ seems to be the norm in my area depending on what kind of wood it is and how long its been seasoned for. Last load I had to buy was about 50odd euros a stere I think.
As far as I am aware, stacking the wood outside under a tarp is to season it. It dries better if the wind can circulate in and around the stack, with the tarp to keep the rain off obviously. People round here tend to uncover them in summer too, to let the sun at them. This stuff is already seasoned so no need for that, I just shove it in the woodshed.
I dunno about paying by the tonne, I always worked it out by the stere, which is a cubic meter of 1m lengths, and anywhere from 35€ - 70€ seems to be the norm in my area depending on what kind of wood it is and how long its been seasoned for. Last load I had to buy was about 50odd euros a stere I think.
08 October 2010, 09:34 PM
#12
I have a Morso Panther and a coalbrookdale Much Wenlock.
Both are great,the panther is easier to use but the Wenlock gets warmer..
Wood is your problem,or rather the supply. I burn a lot of pallets on mine,but it rips through them quickly.2-3 buckets a night each on average..
Of course you can use coal eggs,these will stay in all night if you want them too..But its not reallt a cost effective way of warming the house. Ours will burn £10-£12 a night..
Chimney... many people put steel liners in,but we had ours concrete lined.I think they guarantee 30 yrs..
Oh...you will need to invest in a decent chainsaw if you havent already got one.
Both are great,the panther is easier to use but the Wenlock gets warmer..
Wood is your problem,or rather the supply. I burn a lot of pallets on mine,but it rips through them quickly.2-3 buckets a night each on average..
Of course you can use coal eggs,these will stay in all night if you want them too..But its not reallt a cost effective way of warming the house. Ours will burn £10-£12 a night..
Chimney... many people put steel liners in,but we had ours concrete lined.I think they guarantee 30 yrs..
Oh...you will need to invest in a decent chainsaw if you havent already got one.
09 October 2010, 12:44 PM
#13
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We have an open fire with a mix of coal and wood. We are lucky in that there is a builder's dump just down the road and we can have as much wood as we want off it. Its cheaper for them since they would have to pay to get rid of it.
Hard to beat an open fire on a winter night!
Les
Hard to beat an open fire on a winter night!
Les
09 October 2010, 05:34 PM
#15
Our stoves weren't cheap, one French, one English.
But yes, the liner was stupid money. Even back in 2003, it was around £85, it would be nearly £130 now.
Oh, and be careful anyone who has to cut one: I opened a cut on my little finger this summer, (sadly the finger that's numb, so the first I knew was blood running down my arm), and it took an hour to stop it bleeding
I know, should have worn gloves...........
But yes, the liner was stupid money. Even back in 2003, it was around £85, it would be nearly £130 now.
Oh, and be careful anyone who has to cut one: I opened a cut on my little finger this summer, (sadly the finger that's numb, so the first I knew was blood running down my arm), and it took an hour to stop it bleeding
I know, should have worn gloves...........
09 October 2010, 05:48 PM
#16
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wood and coal burning stoves aren't cheap, cost more than having gas. Our stove heats the room and radiators, also have the open fire in our front room.
Over winter they go through a lot of logs and coal plus the nightmare of having to clean it out every day before you can relight it. As well as having to keep going outside to get coal and logs from the back of the garden at stupid times. She's started lighting it again already, ordered our FIRST (of many) ton of coal for the winter
It cost so much last year that I'm considering buying a van and an axe so I can head into the country and steal some trees
Over winter they go through a lot of logs and coal plus the nightmare of having to clean it out every day before you can relight it. As well as having to keep going outside to get coal and logs from the back of the garden at stupid times. She's started lighting it again already, ordered our FIRST (of many) ton of coal for the winter
It cost so much last year that I'm considering buying a van and an axe so I can head into the country and steal some trees
09 October 2010, 07:57 PM
#17
we just installed a Saey inset
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove/...e-fenix-80.jpg
it has an electric fan you can put on to blast heat out (not that you really need to).
lined the chimney with stainless - pig of a job!
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove/...e-fenix-80.jpg
it has an electric fan you can put on to blast heat out (not that you really need to).
lined the chimney with stainless - pig of a job!
09 October 2010, 10:33 PM
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We burn allsorts on our woodburner. I often get scrap wood from work - we're currently working through an old trussed rafter roof, which leaves little ash, but a hearth full of gang nails.
09 October 2010, 11:16 PM
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11 October 2010, 04:58 PM
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11 October 2010, 05:07 PM
#26
And there I was thinking this might be a better option than the open fire we have. Missus moans that the fire does not give enough heat for the house or the room and that a wood burning stove would solve the problem.
Wow !! at that price, me thinks the real fire is staying a bit longer
Wow !! at that price, me thinks the real fire is staying a bit longer
11 October 2010, 06:34 PM
#27
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
£1500 for a thermocrete liner is about right..Too expensive if it was just a steel sleeve.
Log burners are not really a "cheap" option unless you have a great source of wood.But even then you really need to tool up and get a wood store sorted.
Are they worth the effort ?? Personal choice but there great place to be in winter!
£1500 for a thermocrete liner is about right..Too expensive if it was just a steel sleeve.
Log burners are not really a "cheap" option unless you have a great source of wood.But even then you really need to tool up and get a wood store sorted.
Are they worth the effort ?? Personal choice but there great place to be in winter!
11 October 2010, 07:17 PM
#28
You probably know already but check the smoke control areas before you shell out
I put our own in once using double skin liner (no chimney) and cost 100€ a metre but was worth it
If you're in our neck of the woods (South Devon / Cornwall) Trago Mills sell decent woodburners, a good one for £299, double glass doors etc
If you have a good uplift from your liner, get a damper, closes the uplift and you can just let the wood burner simmer, keeping the heat in and using less wood
I put our own in once using double skin liner (no chimney) and cost 100€ a metre but was worth it
If you're in our neck of the woods (South Devon / Cornwall) Trago Mills sell decent woodburners, a good one for £299, double glass doors etc
If you have a good uplift from your liner, get a damper, closes the uplift and you can just let the wood burner simmer, keeping the heat in and using less wood
11 October 2010, 07:20 PM
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