The Zohan

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...malaria-africa

Nick Clugg has promised another 150million pounds of UK taxpayers money to fight malaria in the third world. OK not a problem with that in principle i do not like to see people suffer.

The UK yesterday announced that it had borrowed more money than in previous months at 15.3bn.

How can we justify spending money on overseas help when we are borrowing huge amounts it makes little or no sense to me. We increase our debts to help others - how exactly does this help the UK the UK people??? and in the long term how will this help the UK invest in thew third world if we are increasing our borrowing and lengthening the time to pay back???

NO surprises that i am not an economist or head of the red cross. I do hate to see suffering but i do not understand how we can afford to commit this money at this time given we are looking at cutting back on policing healthcare etc.

I am sure someone will say that 150m is nothing compared to our debt but tbh i was always taught "look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves" and i do doubt we got into debt with just one big, one off spend lots of smaller ones i guess some around 150m maybe???

OK we as a country need to save money where we can by improving inefficiencies and stopping the abuse of out own social welfare system - these are a given and have little or no bearing on what i am asking.

In the long term how can it help for the UK to keep on borrowing then giving away large sums we do not have. It can reduce our credit standing in the world and lengthen the time to pay back further hampering any future efforts to help other countries.

It just does not make sense - to me anyway.

ScoobyWon't

I saw the report and wondered pretty much exactly the same.

Can we offset the donation against the debt we owe?

Jamie

Is he going to start in Bradford/leeds first ?

bigsinky

150m is a tear in a salty sea for countries in the multi trillion gdp groups. think the uk has a gdp of about 2.5T while countries like the US are around 15T. when you start to talk with figures like these £150m is pocket change and not worth bothering about.

You also need to realise that there is also a political agenda behind our aid giving to 3rd world countries.

belliott69

iTrader: (3)

it has always seemed a bit of a waste to me while we're in the state we are in, £150m may not seem alot but it would of helped to start chipping away at any debts. its a shame that the way our country is run is how most people live nowadays, constantly borrowing money to offset other debts.

bigsinky

robbing Peter to pay Paul, or kiting as it's called in banking circles.

David Lock

Well I support the aid programme as I think we have a moral duty. We don't have a moral duty to host the Olympics at £12b+ as a comparison. And of course UK took its more than fair share of the world's goodies back in the good old days of the Empire

But I do sometimes question the targeting of UK aid. £200m to China IIRC which, on the face of it, seems odd.

There used to be fairly strict rules about aid benefiting UK only suppliers but this may have changed with the bloody EC telling us what to do I have no problem at all trying to tackle malaria and imagine the benefits this would bring to a British company if they came up with an effective and cheap cure. Work in the malaria field draws the short straw as AIDS is viewed as a far more "sexy" problem to tackle.

And in the longer term it does no harm for UK to be seen in a good light by the countries we help. It allows us to steal nurses from poor countries to work in the NHS for example

Keep up the (fairly) good work I say

david

mamoon2

Put it this way.......

You are in massive debt, maxed out credit cards, big overdraft, looking like you will never get out of financial mess. You are spending more than you earn...... and a kid from the other side of town knocks on your door and asks for money because his dad has spent all their money on guns. Would you...

A. Ask him if he takes credit card and take out more debt to give him some money

B. Say.... Sorry pal, I haven't got a penny to my name to give you

The way I see it, unless we have actual cash in the bank then we don't have money to give. The IMF might as well give them the money

mamoon2

Put it this way.......

You are in massive debt, maxed out credit cards, big overdraft, looking like you will never get out of financial mess. You are spending more than you earn...... and a kid from the other side of town knocks on your door and asks for money because his dad has spent all their money on guns. Would you...

A. Ask him if he takes credit card and take out more debt to give him some money

B. Say.... Sorry pal, I haven't got a penny to my name to give you

The way I see it, unless we have actual cash in the bank then we don't have money to give. The IMF might as well give them the money

chrisevo2000

It would be interesting to see,if the shoe was on the other foot,if these Countries would be so willing to help us out.
The way this Country is going,in another 20 or 30 years,maybe we will find out.
Chris

mamoon2

Er, India is one of the biggest economies in the world now so why does it need our aid?

Madness! They should be giving us aid

Martin2005

As with most of these announcements, this almost certainly isn't 'new money', just a redistribution of the overseas aid budget

The Zohan

OK but we still borrowed a huge amount last month and will borrow a huge amount next month maybe and hopefully less that last month.

With the pledge possibly being 'old money' then surely this 'old money would be better saved and used to cut down on borrowing and the interest payments we will incur on said 'borrowing'.

It makes not sense to borrow money when you are giving money away, even if accounted for - why we are canceling projects in the UK left, right and centre, agreed projects which will generate jobs and employment in this country yet we give away money we do not really have. This is farcical surely???

If this was a person someone asking for advice on here then they would be slated (rightly so) for being irresponsible and possibly stupid!?!

I still do not 'get it'

I have heard people trivialise and ridicule the expression/phrase 'charity begins at home' but how and why can you help others when your own house is in such bad order there are 20-30% cut in public services alone.

People say 150m is a drop in the ocean, well not frankly it is not. 150m saved when you are borrowing hand over fist is better and makes much more sense. How can we as taxpayer be expected to pay more to tighten our belts, to prepare for cuts when we give away such sums of money infact borrow more money it is not like we are cash rich, in the black and dripping money that being the case then fair enough share the wealth but this is not the case at all.

speedking

I suppose that if one terrorist attack on the UK is prevented by the potential terrorists seeing the good that the UK does by donating money to the third world, then that £150m will seem like money well spent.

The Zohan

I think that history shows that countries will gladly take your money and aid and still spit in your eye

Bin Laden - part of the Mujaheddin fighting the Russians in Afghanistan - lots of financial and military help and yet still 911

Norman D. Landings

After I've finished my 9 hour day today and drive the 90 mins home, in the special part of the journey which takes me through Bradford, I'l try not to notice the largely untaxed, uninsured, Range Rovers and Hummers, 911's and Maserati's being driven around by the local teenage/twenties dealers because I'm sure I'd get a bit miffed if I thought that £150 milion might just make a dent in their lawless lavish lifestyles.

Edit: And yes, they're generally Aisian Yoof's but thats a whole different can of worms which I for one won't be opening, oh, erm ....

Jamie

What he said ^

Martin2005

As you clearly understand this is a multi-dimensional issue. Mixed up in this are in no particular order

Trade
Politics
Morality

The first 2 can be completely justified on 'self interest'. I would also say this has to be looked at as a very long-term issue, if you simply judge it on this years spend and deficit you will likely come to different answers than if you look at th bigger longer term issue and benefits

On the morality side of things; 3 children died of malaria in the time it took me to type this post

Jamz3k

I thought it was fairly simple. Since we British no longer have an Empire anymore, we have to show how big our ***** are by throwing money at things(in the name of aid for our fellow man). Sure why bother helping out our injured soldiers, providing care for disadvantages children or the elder when you can make grand jestures to those countries that would see us all dead tomorrow if they had the power.

David Lock

I just wonder if we had spent one tenth of what we have spent in Iraq and certainly Afghanistan on peaceful aid there would be a lot less terrorists wanting to blow up UK citizens. If you live a more or less peaceful family life in those places it can't be much fun having your door kicked in by a Western soldier. No wonder they think of us as "white imperialist pig dogs*.

dl

The Zohan

Some of the terrorist who have actually committed mass murder in this country are supposedly British, had the benefits, education, health services and security this country offers and yet decided to blow up innocent civilians on British trains and buses anyway.


surely we would be better saving the 150m, paying off our debts and then helping once we can afford to without borrowing more money then giving it away albeit to a good cause so we can help in the long term.

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

This irritates the hell out of me. As a country we will throw millions at such things as overseas aid, waste a fortune on daft initiatives like publicly accessible art, yet we need charitable organisations like the British Legion to exist to offer support and aid to the families of our armed forces, which really in my opinion is a cost that should be met from government funding. We have homeless people in every major town and city and those living in abject poverty on our own doorstep, but it is better to throw money to some third world scheme where there will be no accountability for how this funding is used, and ultimately no benefit to those from whom it was no doubt taken from in taxation.

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Good answer! Even in the 90s with the Exchange Rate Mechanism debacle, we were haemorrhaging more than that daily to prop up the quid.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

How much does it cost to build a school in the U.K?

bigsinky

we got a nice school built for about 400K

Mrfastbaz

agree with tarmac terror charity as far as i am concerned begins at home especially in todays climate massive debt tax rises in the offing vat going up fuel duty increases cuts in public spending etc etc.. come on politicans get real look after your own

Martin2005

This isn't charity though is it?

Fundamentally it is the right thing to do...do you remember 'the right thing' some of you clearly cannot comprehend this obscure concept

I wish we spent our money at home and abroad more carefully and extracted maximum value, but it's a massive mistake to think you can trade these things off