tony de wonderful

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...an-200000.html

Interesting article in the telegraph about how much we pay GP's nowdays.

For example:

Why did Labour start paying GP's more in real terms? Were we short of GP's? I have nothing against GP's getting decent pay but 200k? I mean should being a GP = riches? It's just a job, and one that shelters one from the rigors of a free market at that so ultra secure and to be frank not that hard IMHO.

pslewis

That's just the same as a Dentist, yet a Dentist tends to be a failed Doctor ..... so, yes, they deserve it.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Get yourself up to Newcastle Dental School and say that

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

PSLewis

I'm not a failed Doctor LOL

You can twist and turn stats for doctors and dentists until the cows come home because they do so many different jobs.

I'll post my salary if you will post yours

Shaun

PS

IIRC TAGI / Average

Dentists (NHS) £70- £114
Docs (GP's) £135 at the top end
NHS Consultants salary £65-£95

LUCKO

iTrader: (3)

jealousy..............theres no cure for it

tony de wonderful

So you are ok with public sector pay rising exponentially?

Do you pay tax?

**** it just pay GP's a million a year! Accuse anyone that complains of jealousy.

fast bloke

But a GP is just a failed Vet. The GP can only understand one species, Vets understand many more.Anyway - based on my client list, opticians still make more money than anyone who doesn't work in finance

tony de wonderful

Opticians are like entrepreneurs though owning business' right?

mgcvk

Ha ha. Yes that's true. I wouldn't trust an NHS doc to operate on my parrot.

PaulC72

IMHO GP's and alike all earn their money after all who would examine some of the things they have to if you wasn't getting paid well for doing it.

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

Well there's one thing for sure....their contracts are not going to be increased any over the next few years

john banks

Yes we were short of GPs, there was a recruitment crisis before this contract, although the new contract was a bit tick box and generous, they've certainly worked hard on clawing it back since. The number of consultations per patient has increased dramatically since the 1990s due to GPs taking on more ex-hospital work and much more primary prevention/chronic disease management. And they do it for a cost per patient that would be very difficult to match unless a private provider came in and cross subsidised to get a monopoly.

Most do not make £200k, they are the outliers who have other business interests usually, GP profits include private income. Average GP does OK, but is not rich, you'll notice the biggest group is in the £50-100k range. It does shelter one from the rigors of a free market and is ultra secure, but I wish neither were the case personally as it could improve quality and get rid of the dead wood. I wouldn't agree that it is not a hard job, this week I've been ill myself where if I was employed I would have had a few days off, but I work in small practice and there has been no one else to cover so I've not had a day off in 10 years, and this week made a few important decisions amongst the mundane that definitely saved one life, spotted two other life threatening conditions which without action could have died that day, and selected potential cancers amongst a whole range of complex and often vague presentations. I don't get it all right though, previously I have not been able to spot warning signs in the middle of the pit of need/scrum that is a typical day in general practice and patients have died, which eventually happens to all patients of course.

If you base your opinion of what a GP does on your own interaction with them or a bad example, it may give a distorted impression.

I make about two thirds of the hourly rate out of programming a computer as I make being a doctor. I think that is reasonable given that the first is a particular niche which I've had particular success with although which has no qualifications whatsoever and isn't as responsible, whereas GPs are plentiful but the job is far more responsible and took quite a bit of educational achievement.

I think I'm paid fairly for both jobs, not too much, not too little.

As usual, if it is over-paid, go do it!

john banks

The figures seem distorted compared to reality. I know a dentist with about 5 employees in a practice started a few years ago that from the sounds of it earns double what most GPs I know make. And I don't know any poor NHS Consultants either, with private work, drug company sponsored speaking, merit awards.

The grass is on average not greener on the other side, no matter which side of the fence you sit.

Butkus

I say good luck to them if they're earning £200k/year (although that is top end by the sound of it). It's not a job you can just walk into, it takes years to qualify.

It's a free country, so anyone can try to do anything. I don't think you should moan about what other people earn.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

John

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8183788.stm

Have a look at this article and look at the spread of dentists earnings........between £300,000 and £50,000 and look at the numbers of actual dentists in each cohort. My estimate of dentists median earnings isn't that far out.

My patient base is about half a million and I don't have any time for private work, nor do I have any merit awards or CEA's. My salary falls in the middle of the lowest paid cohort.

Not complaining though LOL

Shaun

GC8WRX

Being a gp seems easy, either diagnose something common and with obvious symptoms or refer to a specialist, ill take 100k a year to do that!


Then again for 100k a year i should be able to get appointments when it suits me, not when it suits my gp, i vote for extended opening hours, just like a bank, they serve the public, not the other way round!

john banks

The Telegraph article for GPs doesn't include salaried GPs, only partners. The equivalent for comparison would surely be, "Dentists running their own practices who had a contract with the local primary care organisation to provide NHS services earned on average £126,807."

There are loads of salaried GPs making half that.

OTOH, self employment is "exciting". Sometimes you can't pay yourself at all, or need to pay money in so your staff get paid.

Luan Pra bang

Good gp's are worth more than 20
0k **** ones definitely not

Luan Pra bang

Good gp's are worth more than 20
0k **** ones definitely not

john banks

Obviously all symptoms and dangerous complications are... obvious. With that attitude you'd make a very dangerous doctor. How many hours do you want me to work in a day? Before this contract I used to be working a day, on call all night (which by 2002 was about 1-2 hours sleep) and then working the next morning. It was unsafe. I now work 4 days in General practice, yet this week I've done one blissful 9 hour day, two 10 hour days, and one 13 hour day. In the morning I see people who call usually within 2 hours of their call (often a lot before and I also see people who walk in without an appointment), and they come in every 7.5 minutes on a good morning or every 5 minute on a bad morning for two hours (after I've spent an hour phoning them all trying to do some of the typically 30 calls on the phone, but sometimes 100 people call on one morning and I've seen 40 patients in a morning before). In that time some of them want several problems fixed. Then I drive around the countryside in the pissing rain visiting people who have run out of money for the bus, and sometimes ill people Then I have about 200 prescriptions to process, about 15 phone calls, and about 150 items of mail per day many of which require attention. Then pre-booked appointments in the afternoon, whilst being interrupted by more visits, prescriptions and phone calls. Apart from occasional lulls such as this which I deserve after this hell of a week, it is wall to wall activity. I'm not sure what more I can do to give Tesco style hours, but I'd go mad if I tried.

And if you can get a job now to do all that for £100k you're doing a lot better than most.

The reality is different than the press make out, that should be obvious.

I've had a few students shadow me for a day who are considering medicine. A few decided not to after that.

I probably wouldn't do it again.

GC8WRX

Boo ******* hoo, i do 11 hour days five days a week, followed by chasing up issues all weekend, i probably work more than you and get a third of your 100k.


imo gp's are paid far too much, most peeps on here work alot of hours for alot less cash!

john banks

These hours I mentioned in General Practice are part time because I do another job as well. Many full timers do about 60 hours a week in their own practices plus out of hours.

Doing that other job gives me perspective in that my skills in an open market with no qualifications and less responsibility attract 2/3 of the rate and could probably be leveraged up a lot more if I started my own business. It wouldn't take terribly much to shift the balance in terms and conditions for me to consider leaving.

Anyway, is this a race to the bottom of who works the most hours for the least pay? I'm sorry I'm not going to try to compete on that level. If you think you can do better, why not be a GP? If you have the funds and qualifications to do the training, we can talk in 10 years and see when you're qualified as a GP you still think the same?

If you are making £33k for doing 55 hours a week + weekend cover you're making a bit more than the average male in the UK working full time with fewer hours. Yet you feel GP is an easy job, are you very young or missing qualifications, because it sounds like you should be able to do much better for yourself?

P1Fanatic

Change job then. 55hrs a week for 33k = getting mugged.

Simon

john banks

Agree, the issue is probably not that GPs are overpaid, and if so not by much, but that people that sound like they are able enough to do a variety of professions that will earn six figures will work 55 hours for £33k and not recognise that they are being mugged rather than that they could do better and do something about it?

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Good money , wish Id have done that instead of plastering :thum b:

Dingdongler

What a hilarious thread!

1) The OP says he thinks being a GP is easy. This is the same person whose post's are usually littered with the most basic of spelling and grammatical errors. We all do it, including me, but his post's seem in line with the reading and writing skills of an average 12 year old.

2) GC8WRX Welcome to the real world my friend! Some jobs take years of hard work, application and a degree of intelligence. Not everybody can put all those qualities together, those that do get rewarded. If you wanted to earn the money of a GP, why didn't you become one?

Some of these comments seem symptomatic of what's wrong with this country. A doctor is protected from the rigors of a free market ffs?? They aren't protected from potential manslaughter charges and being on the front pages of the papers if they **** up are they?

Everybody thinks they are a pop star in this country, now some muppets on this forum think anybody could turn their hand to being a doctor. Now excuse me whilst I go and perform some brain surgery, I'm sure it can't be that difficult.....

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm
1)

2)

2)

..........did you get stuck with point 3) LOL

Shaun

GlesgaKiss

It's nothing to do with hours and how 'hard' you work though is it. If it's so easy to be a doctor and get paid loads of dosh then why didn't you go down that route?

PaulC72

I would want 200k if I had to stick my fingers up mens *****.......

TopBanana

The government PR machine periodically release this stuff in order to undermine the negotiating position of 'greedy' public sector workers.