Snazy

Travelling along a motorway, pretty much clear, well spaced traffic, on long stretches you can see there is traffic behind you.
As you round a long bend you notice the overheads are displaying red crosses (X) over ALL lanes.
There is no adjacent slip road or exit you can use.
What would you do?

Obey the signal, come to a total stop in the lane you are travelling in?

Get over to lane 1 and come to a stop?

Proceed with extreme caution until you reach the the cause of the closure, or an exit. Whichever comes first.

It's not happened to me, lol but in a recent discussion with an ADI, I discovered he didn't have a solid answer.

Personally I would be inclined to get to lane 1, light up the hazards and stay on the brakes till I see other traffic round the corner, then let the traffic build up behind, then stop.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

I would do exactly as you have said.
A red cross doesnt mean stop dead. It means the lane is closed ahead.

PaulC72

I think you should keep going in the current lane as any sudden lane changes can cause additional confusion for other drivers. Hazzards on and as you approach whatever has closed the lanes slow down. Then maybe consider changing lanes as everything will be stacking up in a calm manner behind.

Gordo

Continue with caution, only put hazards on when there is a clear obstruction ahead of you. As above, does not mean stop.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I'd carry on regardless & only slow if/when I see something. How many times have those fecking things told you to slow down only to get you to speed back up again after a few miles of absolutely nothing to worry about

TX.

shamone

iTrader: (1)

Inside lane, slow down a bit, wait and see what happens - as TX says, those things are always playing up - especially on the M60 anyway......

Gregsti01

iTrader: (1)

If it is safe to do move to inside lane,this gives you two options,one to get off at next juction,use hard shoulder if you have been drinking and need a pee,last comment just jokin,nearside lane gives you more choice if road is blocked

DYK

Stay in the lane that you are already in and keep to a safe speed,unless you are planning to come off at the next avaliable exit,but even then don't do sudden lane changes unless it's safe too.look well ahead and if and when you do see an obstruction or traffic is stationery ahead then use your hazzard lights and gradually slow down..Nothing much you can really do for those who ignore the warnings,just keep a safe distance from them,if one of them is up ya rear in the outside lane just mirror signal mirror again and move over,keep a look out for bikers too..

speedking

Wrong.

The Highway Code clearly states "You MUST NOT proceed further in this lane".

In the OP's scenario, the hard shoulder is the only option, or break out the sleeping bag.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

[Clarkson mode]

More POOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeee eerrrrr!!!



....ohh and then you crash cos it not all setup for TV in real life

vindaloo

If I had lots of space I'd move to the left hand lane and slow right down. I'd consider the XXXs to mean either a major accident or road surface issues caused by weather or geology (sink holes etc). I don't think I'd stop unless I could identify a hazzard. If needs be I'd toddle along at 10-20mph until I knew the situation or spoke with someone in a position of authority.

A couple more reasons... loonies with guns or trying to die on the road..

J.

Leslie

Theoretically you should stop, I think I would slow down with the hazard indicators on and stop eventually keeping a good lookout in the mirror for someone steaming up behind me.

Les

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I recently had the opposite on the new variable speed limit stretch of the M6

Bumbling along at 80mph as was everyone else. Then see one gantry flashing 40mph and "queue ahead". Backed off and coasted to 40mph to then be confronted with a wall of stationary traffic.

What had actually happened was an accident (looks like a numpty changed lane without looking/indicating taking out another two cars). Lane one and Lane three were completly blocked with debris. Whilst lane two was passable but was strewn with gravel from the central reservation.


What the signs should have said were "Accident, lane closures ahead", and a rolling reduction in speed per gantry sign (i.e 60, 40, 20 etc) with the lane closed signs on the two gantrys by the accident. This would a) notify people, and reduce traffic speed gradually preventing further accidents, b) give them chance to exit the motoway at the previous junction instead...which is more crucial if the wombles come along and closed the whole motoway (luckily I was there before the wombles, so we could still pass through scene).

I wouldn't mind so much if was the old signs as they have little surveilance. But this is a brand new system with a CCTV camera every 100yards or so, so the control station could see exactly what was going on and what needed to be done. But then again, thsi system has been installed on the M40 for years now and still doesn't work properly

Leslie

I agree with what you say Ali. You have to allow for the impatient plonkers who will virtually ignore the sign in the first place and continue steaming along at 70+ until they arrive at the stopped traffic quite possibly going too fast to be able to stop. Its a very real worry when you are in front of them.

Les

[-(o)-]

iTrader: (1)

Think this is one of those situations where the rules no longer fit what you'd consider appropriate. Anyone shuffle their steering wheel?

If you stopped on the carriage way it'd be a matter of seconds before some one drove into the back of you at 70+. Even the hard shoulders a risk. I'd move to the nearside if possible and proceed slowly until able to see the cause. With good visibilty I can't see any reason why you shouldn't proceed at 40mph and be prepared to stop.

Snazy

Wow, cheers for all the replies guys, interesting to see there is only a slight variation in how people would behave.
Red X does indeed mean proceed no further in the lane, and in theory as soon as you see the instruction you should leave the lane. But in this case there would be nowhere to go other than the hard shoulder, which would technically not be the right thing to do either lol.

As most have said, I would be happy to continue to proceed with caution, and at a safe speed, however you have to take into account the speed and actions of the approaching traffic also.

Its strange in a sense that there is no hard and fast rule on how to react to the closure of a motorway. Its not uncommon to happen, however I guess the people controlling the signs would usually just use other methods, such as closing lanes one at a time, until you get nearer.

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Just ignore it. I can count on one hand the amount of times the matrix's have actually been correct and useful but seen several hundred different messages displayed telling me all sorts of major hazards are just ahead.

Leslie

You are the very bloke I would hate to have behind me in the same lane!

Les

billythekid

If you ever see this, you need to be stopping in lane 1, hazards on. Do not stop on the hard shoulder because it would be needed for emergency services to get past. Keep your eye on your mirrors and be ready to move off well before you think someone might hit you.

In the real world, I would slow to 15mph to give me time to consider my options, if nothing was open when I get to the gantry I would stop.

Seriously, the HA dont put full lane closures on for nothing, there could be a stolen car coming towards you, a bridge collapse, someone about to jump off a bridge or anything. The chances of a red X being put on by mistake are almost zero as every man and his dog would know about it.

If you can really see far into the distance and there is nothing odd then I would stop on the hard shoulder and call the police to confirm before you continue.

For clarification, if you drive past a red X its 3 points and £60, and the police are most often zero tolerance on this - for obvious reasons.

If you did pass a red X and later have an accident you are in a whole world of trouble.

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Likewise I would hate to be travelling behind someone who took the matrix as correct on blind faith when suddenly it flashed up 40mph when the rest of the motorway was travelling at 70 and there was no other reason for the 40.

SteveShort

anyone who stopped suddenly on a motorway without just cause should be ****ing shot

There are enough idiots out there on the roads

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The only time I have ever seen three red X's (except Britain's got Talent) is when the police are doing a rolling road block.

Usually in this situation there will be a police car at the front either slowing or stopping traffic.

If the police car is not there (or policeman giving any formal signals) and the road is clear ahead, I'd proceed under caution at a reduced speed. I would not brake or use hazards unless I see an obstacle/obstruction ahead or if traffic ahead was braking heavily. If I need to change lane to avoid an obstacle (if it is clear to change lane), I won't use hazards, as other road users will not be able to see my intentions.

Thats just my take on it.

billythekid

Just cause? 3 massive red X's with red flashing lights is enough for me.

Matrix signs with speed on them are ADVISORY only. A matrix sign with a red X on it is not advisory, it is a compulsory sign.

Drive past it at your peril.

speedking

One has to hope that the speed cameras linked to the matrix signs on speed controlled sections of motorway have some delay built in. Otherwise flicking them from 70 to 40 could rake in a load of cash.

If someone was not paying attention, glanced up to see the sign illuminated with 40, and then carried on at 70, they are inviting 3 points and £60 fine. At 75mph a court appearance and ban.

To criticise people for obeying road signs seems bizarre

Leslie

I find your logic to be difficult to understand.

What is the point of having a warning system at all if people are just going to ignore it? Is it better to say nothing to motorists on a motorway at those speeds if there is a hazard ahead and the traffic might even be at a dead stop?

Even if the warnings are sometimes erroneous, is that a good reason for assuming that there is no problem ahead and therefore it is perfectly alright to go hammering through at full speed?

Are you really so mindlessly stupid to say that all warnings should be ignored just in case they are false? If that is really your thinking then you should not be on the roads at all!

Les

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Just to expand on this further. I travel regularly to and from work on the A3 and M25. I got really annoyed at the amount to times the matrix were plain and simply wrong or warning of hazards that simple didn't exist. I also thought that the matrixes should be given the benefit of doubt. Possibly the hazard exists 10 minutes before I got there or similar. Possibly my annoyance of the was clouding the fact there were real messages indicating correct hazards and I did see them (but chose to forget them).

However this was clearly unscienfitic. So (very annally) I decided to keep a log. For 6 months (in 2008) when I got to work/home, I wrote down the message and the actual conditions I experienced at the time. I travelled in rush hour both ways, but also out of rush our too. I also logged overheads that displayed an incorrect speed (for example one off's or a 60 - 40 - 60 display on 3 overhards).

I found that 83% of messages were plain and simply wrong, or rather tha hazard condition did not exist. Some 12% I could not verify ("Port of Felixstowe closed on 18th January" - yes I was on the A3 and southern M25, Felixstowe on 3 days time is clearly a concern to me). This left just 5% of messages that were correct and therefore useful.

Now I never saw a red X and maybe the authorities have a much higher priority/better control put on these, but clearly whoever controls the matrix's down here is not paying particular attention to what is really happening on the roads.

Now to my mind 5% of messages about hazards is not a useful way to employ those matrix or overheads. Neither does it make them believeable. Some people really do start making errantic manouvres when they see a major warning sign.

I therefore employ the age old method of driving to the conditions and using my own instincts about hazards. I therefore do not take any martris or overhead as correct unless I can verify it myself. I do use caution of course and would be doubly prepared if a red X was displayed, but so far I have not see any improvement in the correctness of the signage.

I also sent this to my MP - I really do want the matrix's to work properly (I like the current use on the M25 of displaying "time to" major junctions) but they are not employed correctly down here and cost a fortune. I would rather my road tax is spent on something that makes a difference if they are not going to be used properly.

**** - maybe, but I've proven that most are wrong. My first post was kinda tongue in cheek, but given any hazard sign today, I would be willing to play a £10 bet on is that it was wrong.

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

double post

billythekid

Indeed a red X is not put on without reason.

Matrix signs are often left on by mistake, have wrong messages etc on them. Thats because they are advisory signs. The guy manning them might have several thousand signs to deal with.

However, a red X is serious and the HA will know, the police will know etc etc.

A lot of people dont understand how or why the matrix system works. 99% of it is advisory, but when the motorway needs to be closed it can be and you are legally obliged to observe the sign.

A lot of people confuse variable speed limit signs (white numbers, black background, red ring) with standard matrix signs, (yellow numbers, black background, amber flashing lights).

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Yep, my MP passed my question onto the Surrey Highways department who responded to him the same "they are advisory only".

I understand that some could be wrong (perhaps 10%, hell 15% maybe even 25%), but the sheer scale of the incorrect messages down here, means that they are next to useless and people simply ignore them whatever they say. So what's the likelyhood of the red X being ignored?

Leslie

Fair enough. I understand how you feel about it, but your first post did give a poor impression.

It is certainly bad that the matrix indications are incorrect so often as you say. Continual errors like that will naturally lead people to believe that there is little point in obeying them to the letter. you did right to complain to your MP and I hope that might do some good. If the system is that unreliable, then as you say they should spend the unnecessary cash on putting it to rights.

I still think that you have to obey a warning if it is given because you can never assume it is wrong.

Les