bigsinky

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10807098

and about time to. workshy skiving cvnts getting everything paid for them. poverty trap my ar$e.

dpb

To me , hes headed in the right direction this guy - **** what labour hav to say about it implementing it an all

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I agree, it seems to be the wrong folk getting all the help. I got bugger all apart from £50 a week dole when I was out of work 'cos I had no kids, didn't have "learning difficulties", a criminal record or a council house.

Yeah there should be help there for those who need it as a temporary measure BUT the system should be just that - a temporary assistance, not a bloody life choice

Dr Hu

Difficult situation this welfare business tho.....

Whilst we have a 'caring' culture of 'kids dont live in poverty with no shoes and eat bread & water', you have to pay the parent(s) a decent welfare to keep the kids off the breadline.....

So you either cut all benefits and ickle kiddies suffer, or you keep paying......

I agree (but don't like) that for some, this is their 'life choice' - bang a few kids out & the state 'has' to pay me....

But thats what we have for being a supposedly civilised country.
Either that or we end up back in early victorian society where the kids sweep chimneys (or the modern equivalent)

Tricky one....

SJ_Skyline

Prostituting yourself to the state wasn't a career choice when there were few benefits to be had and a social stigma attached. There needs to be a fundamental change in culture, reattach the social stigma to this lifestyle choice and people will be less inclinced to see it as a career option.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

I am currently working for a local housing association and i reckon this will take generations to sort out . Some of the youngsters i see have no idea of how to look after themselves let alone the kids they are churning out.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Start taking their kids away into care. I know that costs more in the short term for us as a country, but it immediately sends the message that having kids does not bring income or accommodation for free.

If you do not have enough money to support a famliy, you should not start one....

tony de wonderful

Sad thing is w/out the massive welfare state our economy would sink overnight.

Leslie

The major difference is that of attitude. In previous times people had too much pride to go on the dole unless they could not find any kind of a job. Not to work if there was work available was considered to be beyond the pale.

Les

bigsinky

different times les.they all want spoon fed now. i watched a programme the other night "young, dumb and living off mum". 16 and 17 year olds who didnt know how to do anything and i mean anything.

no job, compulsary national service. let the chavvy ******* go to afganistan and earn a crust. if push comes to shove at least they could be used as human shields for the real soldiers out there. sorry but this just boils my pi$$.

Dr Hu

I actually agree with the National service bit - if you havent got a job at 18, off you go to Army Training, if you are are employed, you get an employers exemption.

Might shake a few up too - Loads of people reckon that going into the Forces was the best thing they ever did, gives them some pride & repsect for themselves.

bigsinky

never mind pride and respect, I just want the scummy chavvy bottom feeders thinned out a tad.

Leslie

Can't say fairer than that Big S.

Les

Mikej857

There are far to many people in this country who believe the welfare state is a given right even though I know a guy who has never and I mean never done an honest days work in his life so has never paid a penny to the state but always expects his rent, council tax and weekly wage from the goverment, he claims to have a shoulder problem but this doesnt stop him riding his motocross bike but the idiots in the dole office believe him and he gets far more than he deserves.

These people then churn kids out and the kids then grow up to beleive there sole aim in life is to be like there parents, they have no pride and seem happy to be living off hard working people who do work to support themselves and ultimatley these dole scroungers.

My personal view is the welfare system should be linked to what you pay in to it, for instance if you've worked since you left school and become unemployed for some reason you should be entitled to claim for everything but then these arseholes who have never paid a penny get bugger all and then lets see how many of them finally get some dignity and get a bloody job.

I was made unemployed and to me it was like the end of the world to not be able to support myself or my family, I was given £50 a week to live on and that was it even though I had paid into the system for 15 years, this mad me so angry that I got off my **** and got a job even if it was low paid just to get my dignity back, I have to say if Im not working im not happy i get 2 days off a week and get bored after a day just because I have always worked and find it allien to be sitting doing nothing.

It makes me mad because these people are the ones who claim they cant get a job because of the people who are coming in from other countries taking there job oppotunities, what they dont realise is the immigrants are the ones who come over here solely to work and will take a job whatever it is they really dont care they just want to be working, where as you get the dole scroungers who will go to the dole office and say im not taking any job that wont pay me £1000 a week id rather sit on my **** and let you pay everything for me.

Someone needs to get the message across that we are not going to allow this to go on and eventually you are going to have to get a bloody job even if it is flipping burgers.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ McJobs

TX.

Geezer

Maybe this is too simplistic, but instead of paying benefits to these scroungers, why not just set up a voucher system?

Instead of paying endless amounts of cash, I'm sure they could just work out how much food a person needs to survive on, a reasaonable wardrobe of clothes and then give people vouchers to use at prescribed government outlets where they can purchase these things.

You could pay a flat fee (a small amount) to anyone unemployed, say £20-30 a week, and everything else would be controlled.

People need to realise that having things like a holiday abroad, flat screen TVs, Sky HD, PS3s etc. are the preserve of people who work for a living, who contribute, who aspire to provide for their offspring, not expect a living for no reason at all.

A job would soon be a better alternative.

Geezer

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Its funny (or tragic) that this has gone in a huge circle. Back in the 70s/80's we saw mass urban decay and it was widely blamed on on the huge concrete council estates built in the 50's and 60's (housing in effect "given" to the less well-off). It was derided and given mass criticisation for ruining towns and areas, and the buildings/areas were blamed because people living there "had nothing to be proud of" (this was a widely used quote for most articles related to government funded urban regeneration, costing us billions).

So all the tower blocks were bull-dozed and concrete pre-fabs flattened and made way for low-rise brick built "diversified" housing. Areas for people to be proud to live in, and take care of "their" new homes provided for them by the taxpayer. The remaining tower blocks were refurbished and ran an "opt-in" system so only those who wanted to live there or met a certain criteria could, and those that didn't can move out (again at tax payers expense to relocate).

So, what became of all these regenerated estates? Well, round here they are no better than before. Many are sh*t-tips just like the housing they replaced.

The only ones that aren't are the original 1960's tower blocks operating with restricted tennant criteria (i.e over 50's only), and the houses purchased outright (no or very little mortgage) from the council (again typically by over 50's). The rest are a mess, some worse than the 50's/60's housing they replaced.

Proof that the original concept of "giving" people "something to be proud of" is only of marginal success...pride needs to be taught and learnt before people can appreciate what they are given. Without that its just take, use and abuse.

This length of Labour rule has enough oppertunity for people to make good with what they've been given by the taxpayer, and its proved that the welfare state in its current form just does not work: You can't give people pride or respect (self or for others/for property) via handouts.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

I dont know how most unemployed get all the benefits they do. I am 34 (35 next week) and have worked since I was 16. Recently made redundant. I am married with a little lad just turned 2. The only help I can get is £65 per week job seekers, no help with the mortgage (unfortunately I met the wife at the height of the property boom so I am being screwed mortgage wise), no help with anything. Wife works 27 hours a week part time (her work wont take her back fulltime since the birth so she is currently looking for work as well).

I want to work, but I cannot take a lesser paid job now due to the way the economy was screwed by labour, If I sold the house I would gain nothing and it would mean no money to pay for anything else

[-(o)-]

iTrader: (1)

I'd add my vote to a voucher scheme, so long as it don't become a secondary currency. Would have to ensure it went only on food and clothing. Once lived a few houses down from some DHSS flats, due credit they were quiet but it wasn't surprising from the permanent smell of weed in the air. All paid for by you and me.

Westwood2006

iTrader: (1)

I reckon if you receive benefits you should give something in return even if it is just painting fences in your local area. No work = no benefits.

Geezer

If you could only use it in Govt. outlets for goods that are extremely limited, I don't see that that would become an issue.

I don't wish to see genuinely out of work people reduced to wearing the equivalent of Aldi clothes for the rest of their lives, but strutting around in stuff like that (or Aldi type trainers instead of the latest Nike or Adidas) would certainly make most people want to find some sort of employment!

OK, the real hardcore scroungers will never get a job, but the numbers would be manageable.

Geezer

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Problem is you would not be able to trust some of these people with a feather duster let alone a paint brush

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Geezer, I earn double the national average wage and then a bit, have no mortgage and I still wear Tesco's stuff, I am not into designer stuff in the slightest but even so I shop at the value end of the clothing range as thats what I can afford after eveything else is paid for, one day I might be able to step up to M and S !

I think this is part of the problem, people with nothing, no money, no job or anything still want status symbols, ok, everyone has their dignity to keep hold of but wearing cheaper gear shouldnt be the root of it, its amazing how many less well off people you see in expensive gear, loads of jewellry and stuff like Iphones, ok we all like nice stuff but it should be for when you have achvied something, its not a right. Credit, reality TV, compensation and benefits have completely removed the link between effort and reward, everyone is waiting for that lottery win, X factor win or at the very least, a nice payout from claims direct. Lets face it you wont get mcuh off a mimimum wage job, might as well be on benefits as it leaves you time to pursue "other projects" such as flogging cheap ****, doing car boots etc etc, I can sympathise if someone does a bit on the side to feed their kids but just to sustain a lifestyle is not on.

I think the Voucher system could work, technology could be used to ensure it is not abused (too much), the vouchers should only be usable for food and other essentials, not ****, booze, gambling etc, cash it just too fluid. I am sorry if it offends someones sensibilities and stigmatises them but perhaps that is the problem at the moment, the fact it doesnt, as Les mentioned there used to be pride in having a job and stigma at not having one, people seem to have got over that so perhaps turning up a Tescos (Or Aldi) with Vouchers might help in this respect, if they are bothered a card of some description that looks discreet but when presented will only pay for those items deemed essentials, the rest either gets paid cash or goes back, no booze, no ****.


I am hoping that this doesnt turn into a knock the unfortunate but instead an end to the benefits gravy train, I personally, if I were stuck be grateful for the assistance.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Nowt wrong with Aldi, I shop there even though I can could afford to shop for everything at M&S or Waitrose every week.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

"ALDi-B"

Geezer

Just to clarify, I am not knocking people who shop at Aldi, I do sometimes too. It's just to illustrate that the people who think they are poor unless they are in D&G jeans or the latest trainers etc. should see that some people who have bothered to get a job may have to make more informed choices about where their limited funds will go and that they should actually see how important it is to get a job instead of scrounging.

I don't 'waste' my money on designer gear either. I waste it on other things (but at least I have earned the right to waste my own money )

Geezer

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Some very good points there. But don't think all jonny foreigners coming over are pure as the driven snow. Many bring their partners, get them pregnant and then give up work as they now realise this is how the chavs over here are doing it. Seriously, my Mrs works in a factory with many foreign workers from all over. She has gradually seen many of the women get pregnant and then their partners give up work shortly after the birth. The attitude problem certainly isn't singled out to the chavvy brits, thats the issue; more people want something (which is attainable) for nothing.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

My sensibilities are offended by the fact that many are dealing, working and/or stealing as well as claiming everything going...

A while back some fat father of six said "the kids need their XBOX + PS3 + plasmas so they don't feel "disadvantaged".

**** that ! The two cars were also a luxury IMHO.

dunx

Torquemada

I used to work with a girl who openly laughed about the fact that she had been given two properties to use as a wage and that most of her family are on benefits but still work or claim illegally in other ways and have properties all over the place, dunno how they get away with it!?