gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

I bought a new boat, well new to me anyway, a couple of months ago from an ebay seller. It was advertised on ebay and I spoke to the seller prior to the auction end.I wanted to view the boat prior to placing a bid, unfortunately this didn't happen. However the boat didn't make the reserve and so I contacted the seller and viewed his boat one Saturday morning, along with a second identical one from another seller.


All seemed well, the boat appeared in good condition, better than the other one. It was in a lock-up and so the engine was run up on muffs and pumped water well. I said I'd think about it and get back to the seller. A few days later I agreed a price for the boat to be delivered by the seller to me – a 400 mile round trip; my tow car wouldn't handle this bigger boat so it needed to be delivered.


All seemed well, the boat performed fine on a 15 minute test run and was then left on my mooring, the seller being the last one off the boat. Money/ownership was exchanged and everyone was happy.


Unfortunately the next day the boat had taken on lots of water. A quick phone call to the seller and it was the usual, sorry about the problem, but sold as seen etc etc. I pushed him with the fact that it's clearly not as described – not in good condition etc and that it's not acceptable to sell a boat that sinks.


Without going into all the detail here, I've since found out that the seller is trading – he's advertised as least four boats on ebay since April. I've had to have the boat repaired at a cost of circa £1500. I'm looking at claiming through the small claims court. What is the Scoobynet opinion?



Cheers

billythekid

How old is the boat?

If its his business and he does this for a living then you *may* have some chance in CC.

However, if you cant prove this (as in legally prove) - then I doubt you can get anything.

Let me guess, the boat was about £1500 cheaper than it should have been?

Its a shame when this kind of thing happens but seems there are lots of people out there who are willing to do people over.

Did you sign any contracts or such like?

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

If you can prove that the seller is a registered trader you'll find it much easier to win a case in the small claims court, but either way you bought a boat and not a submarine so you should expect it to float more than 24 hours. The biggest problem you'll have is that you had the opportunity to inspect the boat, and there was a period between the boat being left in your care and you reporting the problem - the counter-argument the seller will use is that you could have damaged the boat after he left and you are trying to get him to cover the cost of your misfortune/negligence. You would need to prove that the leak was not caused either recently if it was damaged or by an impact if it was wear and tear. You will also need to prove that the seller should have known about it.

My advice is get down to your local citizen's advice bureau.

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

ebay link so we can do some searching?

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Okay guys more info. The boat is 14 years old and was the most expensive of the 3 I viewed, it's a sports cruiser £8400 Fletcher. I did have a chance to I spect it on dry land bu the problem was a split transmission cable housing which you wouldn't find until the boat was in the water. I reported it to him with 18 hours of us floating the boat and it was the first time I'd been on board since purchasing it. It's on a tidal mooring so couldn't before anyway. The boat and engine/leg had supposedly been services - upon inspection this was also untrue to a lesser extent. The guy is an electrician by trade and is buying/selling boats to pay for a wedding. There's plenty more .....

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

trading standards and ask him if hes registered for vat?

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Yeah I thought of that, but it's my last option before court. Also, the tax man, as he should be paying tax on what he earns.

Leslie

Before buying a boat it is worth having it surveyed by a professional or insisting on a surveying certificate from the seller.

Les

The Zohan

If the boat is taking on water in a serious way then it really is not 'fit for purpose' most boats even fibreglas will take on a little water this sounds a little more serious.

When i had a speedboat (fletcher 15ft with a 90hp yam) we went to change the prop and found the final drive shaft had been welded, we got the whole gearbox changed for a new one as the driveshaft could not be seperated. finally threatening court action got a result - This was from a trader, the engine was not 'fit for purpose' and the shaft could have seperated at any time!

persevere would be my advice

PaulC72

Does the same rule apply to boat selling as it does cars? if you sell more than 3 a year you are classed as a trader?

If so make sure you get copies of any of his recent adverts selling other boats and the one you have for yours as they will help prove he should be a trader.

If not then CAB is the way to go anyway.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

I've printed his four adverts on eBay, so that along with a report from a marine engineer that the drive leg had not been serviced should hopefully put me on the right path. The seller claims that he'd only had the boat 6 weeks and his wife to be doesn't like it so he's selling it to fund their wedding. Quite funny how he span the same line to a friend of mine when he advertised the next boat! He claims that he's not a trader and that he's allowed to buy & sell upto five boats for profit before he's classed as such. We'll see what a solicitors letter threatening court action does.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

* Update *

Went to the small claims court yesterday and the judge agreed on the fact that a boat should not sink and with the evidence I submitted, was awarded nearly £1500.

Account deleted by request

Well done

Didn't Take very long either.

Chop

Ps - are you a pslewis alias?

The Zohan

Nice pne - hope he pays up quickly

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Good result!

hodgy0_2

small claims is a great tool --- little bit of paperwork, but this keeps the idiots at bay

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Glad you got a result, I just hope he pays up and doesn't leave chasing the money even though it has been judged in your favour.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Thanks guys.

The case lasted about an hour an a half, of which I spend probably 45-50 minutes making a case for myself. The sellers downfall was that he admitted he sold the boat 'in good condition'. If he had not said that when I viewed it, he would have got away with it. I'm just glad he was a bit slow as well as corrupt.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

lol no, 'fraid not

MMT WRX

How correct is this?

My BiLs job was in jeopardy last year so he bought a car at auction with the intention of smartening it up and selling on. If it went well and he made a profit he was going to do another. He didn't go through with it in the end after he took advice and was told if you buy just one car with the intention of selling on for profit you are considered a trader and would need to register as such.

I think this 3, 5 however many cars/year thing is evidence towards proving somebody is potentially a trader rather than somebody who changes their car on a regular basis.

Op glad you got it sorted, well done for pushing this.

dpb

So what was leaking , the stern gland ?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Transmission cable housing apparently.

Z drive I guess?

I know nothing on boats, barring my old man nearly bought one with mismatching (inboard) engines (one was about 150bhp the other was 180bhp).....would have driven round in circles. LOL

Thankfully I was up to speed on Perkins engine codes (HT6.354 of which all have different output rating depending on heads/chargecooling etc.)

PaulC72

You are more than likely correct, I am sure I heard the 3 cars rule (was previously 6 irrc) from a car show on TV.

I do think if you sold one they would be hard pushed to bring any sort of case to you as thetre would be no history and you may have just gotton lucky with the sale.

I think it is something to do with SOGA and buyers protection.

I have also just read that dealer shave to make it clear they are dealing in their adverts i.e not make buyers think they are private sellers.


OP also glad you got it sorted.

DCI Gene Hunt

The moral of this tale is....



Added with



Equates to

MMT WRX

DCI ^^^^

dpb

Seems an expensive repair if it was just a gland , and youd have thought fairly obvious when out the water if it were actual damage to the fiberglass ?

Wish

iTrader: (2)

Fingers crossed he pays up !

stiscooby

If it's like most small claim things you will probably be waiting months to even get a penny (assuming he didn't pay you there and then ), especially if the guy doesn't give a **** and will just ignore it all.

Well done for pursuing it though, hope you get all your money......soon!

corradoboy

If he doesn't pay, sell the debt on.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

How much did it cost you to take it so far though? £'s or £00's?

TX.