NENO

Posted at bottom of other thread, but so that everyone gets a chance to see, here it is again.

http://home.pchome.com.tw/sport/mtbnet/open.htm

Mike

IWatkins

No doubt it will be overpriced, wear quickly and only poseurs who never go offroad will buy it. Like 2002 stuff, oh and 2001 stuff.

XT works just as well, in fact better in real mud and sand.

But there again, I've never had problems with Deore if maintained properly.

Its all marketing....

NENO

Oh yer XTR is just a pile of poo - NOT!

Where did you find this "real mud and sand" that XT works better in? I'm sure those Shimano engineers would be very interested to know!

You might have a point about XTR being for poseurs though, kind of like colour coded door mirrors etc.

Luke

Neno ( Sorry about incorrect spelling in other post)

Shimano are a company... Every year they say "we must bring out new products for the Kids!!" They need to be seen as a world leader. The Mountain bike magazines survive off Advertising, thats why they get better reviews than "Avid" cos they can spend more on advertising.
Look at the new range of forks just come out..... Any better than "Sids" not realy.. But everyone is out buying the new ones because they feel they are getting better.I have just bought 2 pairs of mint "SID's"SL's, will keep them as they are so good (£160.00) S/H.
Most mountain bike shops are loosing money and sales are down.People are getting wise and sticking with stuff they know works. Most of the riders I hang with use Older stuff. XT (2001)rears are a favourite. "Stumpy" frames a classic. "Konas" are dreams and the new( Cad 3/4's) Cannondales are getting realy popular..One had a CHris King Hub break last week!!! ( OK. Their after sales are fantastic) But his face!!!!! after spending all that money.

I am very lucky.. I can ride what I want. My "Team Cannondale Volvo" is worth a fortune and worth it. BUT when I take my old "Kona" "Ah ha" out all my mates want to buy it!! It is my all time favourite bike.

The only new thing I buy are Helmets!!! at least 2 a year. And cables,Change them about every 5 weeks.

Remember they want you to upgrade.

IWatkins

NENO,

I didn't say XTR was Poo, your words. I said they were overpriced and didn't work as well as XT when the going gets really muddy/sandy. This is not just from my own experience but experinces of many others.

It is quite simple. If you do real offroading, you will have less shifting problems with XT than with XTR once the kit is no longer new. Sure, if you can afford to replace the whole drivetrain with XTR every 3 months, you will never have problems. But once the kit starts to wear, XT will last longer and will be more reliable.

Its the same with hydra versus mech disks. If you are not running 4 pot hydras with huge rotors, you will not be able to stop. Pure marketing bollix.

Sure, many V brakes aren't much cop in the wet/mud, but there are plenty of mech disk systems that work well without the hassle and expense of going to hydras. I run Avid CPS mech discs on many of my bikes and they have more stopping power than you will ever need. I can lock the front up on tarmac with a hard pull (I have the scars to prove it ). You simply do not need more braking power than that.

There are loads of other bits in MB'ing that average 'proper' riders do not need.

Sorry, that got a bit long and ranty.

Cheers

Ian

P.S. Nice one Luke, I also picked up some 'spares'. A SID SL s/h for 100.00 (needs rebuild but perfect otherwise) and a SID XC, brand new for 180.00.

[Edited by IWatkins - 3/30/2002 6:48:56 PM]

Luke

Ian

Here is my party trick!!!

When I take my Kona out, everyone asks why I have a AVID mechanical disk on the front?? Most have "Hope Mini's". I ask them if they have ever tried a well set up Avid..... When they try they are so amazed at the stopping power and modulation.

I have Hopes 4 pots on my Cannondale ("very cool!!)

Luke

IWatkins

Yeah, been there.

I initially went with the for the Hopes on my full susser but had no end of problems with fluid leakage, pad failure etc. Hope bent over backwards to help but in the end I just wasn't happy. They were nice as pie and gave me a refund too. That is service for you.

I've also let friends who run minis etc. have a go on my GT with Avid front and rear. I warn them that I've set them up for almost zero modulation but even so, it usually ends up with a stoppie into face plant and giggles all round.

I think everyone who has tried the Avids are seriously impressed. Hoever, some people do like the feel of hydra better, and good luck to them too. Each to their own, that is what I say.

Cheers

Ian

NENO

Ian, what can I say, I don't feel the same as you about bike products. Fair call you didn't say that XTR was poo but I think it was implied...

Luke, Shimano update only one of their groupsets every year - this year it's XTR. It's basically been around in the same form since the mid '90's when it was last up dated. I think as a company policy that's pretty damn responsible - it's hardly milking it as you imply, is it?

I'm intrigued, why are you guy's so jaded with mtb products?

It's great to discuss mtb's do you think we qualify to have our own forum yet!!!! LOL

Either of you know of an mtb BBS?

Mike

NBW

Are the AVID cable discs really that good then?

Cheers
Tim

Luke

Tim

They are fantastic!! So easy to set up, Change the cable now and then and thats it. Bike shops dont realy want you to know how good they are.//www.wiggle.co.uk/ is a good place to buy them from. £40.00 buys a good set S/H.

Jaded???!!

Anyone tried "Airshifters"????

Dont know if I could handle a MTB BBS !!! This one is enough for me!!

Luke

[Edited by Luke - 3/31/2002 5:11:51 PM]

NBW

OK, seems like an Avid disc is going on the front......

NENO

Yer Luke tried them, loved them, even ordered a set but I wasn't going to wait nine months for a set! That and the fact I had no where to put them on my M1.

Good point, I'd never get any work done if there was an mtb bbs. Ever looked at Echelon Velo? It's pretty much closed now but a more moaning, grumpy bunch you couldn't ask to meet!

IWatkins

Tim,

Yep, Avids rock big time. I reckon they are easier to setup than hydras and are easy to adjust. As Luke says, keep a good quality (i.e. non-stretch) cable on there and you are laughing. I use GORE Ride-On cables. Super strong, super slick but a little pricy at 20 notes for two brake cables including outers and inners. Quite easy to do high speed stoppies with them, not that I do that sort of thing

Don't get me wrong, a well setup set of Hopes will work just as well, if not better. Some people actually prefer the feel of hydras. It is just that the Avid mech is easy to setup, fairly cheap, easy to adjust and should you break one you can quickly refit a V brake and go riding using the same cable and lever.

MTB BBS's ? There are a few such as BikeMagic but they are mainly full of kids. My favorite is STW, older readership. I spend too much time there

Neno,
I think your idea of them only updating one groupset a year is in error. They are deffo updating Alivio this year as well as XTR. Well that is if the info I got from the Shimano launch is correct. I've seen pictures of black and gold chainsets kicking about on the 'net as well past few weeks with LX designation but I think Shimano have been mopping up the leaks as they have been slowly disappering.

Me ? I'll stick to my 98/99 LX/XT mix thanks very much, along with my box of spare bits.

Cheers

Ian

Luke

Neno

9. Months ??? Why???

NBW

That confused me to - they're in stock at Chain Reaction....