Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Looking for some feedback. Suing doctors/hospitals was always something that my wife and I didn't believe in - thought it was a nasty blame culture that we've adopted from the USA. But like all things - once something happens to you, it gives you a different perspective.

I don't know if we will want to make a claim for the following - but last night I was getting pretty angry due to what has happened, the fright it gave us, the pain my wife is in and the financial cost it will put on us due to her being house bound for a while.

Story:

Yesterday morning my wife went into a private hospital (healthcare insurance) for a very routine 10-15 minute operation (under a general) to remove some polyps from here uterus - which had been causing irregular bleeding. She was then due to be home in the early afternoon and back to work on Friday morning.

After 40 minutes (and she was still in), one of the nurses came in to tell me that there has been a complication, they were waiting for another surgeon to arrive to help but they wouldn't tell my anything else. My wife was in surgery for almost 3 hours - during which time my mind was all over the place with what was happening (I was almost physically sick a number of times with the worry and stress).

What happened was that the first surgeon has cut through the wall of the uterus and damaged her small bowel. They then needed the second surgeon to come and open my wife's stomach up (4 inch scar) and remove part of her small bowel before patching her up again.

She'll be in hospital for 6-7 days, can't drive for 6 weeks and whilst she had an ok night, her blood pressure is still very low. They don't think she's bleeding internally but they are taking her vitals every 15-30 minutes.

I have the say that the hospital and staff there have been amazing (should be given that it's being paid for) and the surgeon who made the error/slip is mortified over what has happened.

As I said, our first reaction was - theses things happen, what's important is that it looks like she's going to be ok - but should them just saying sorry be enough to make up for the pain my wife has, the worry I have, the monetary cost this will have on us plus the disruption to both my work and my wife's work?

Anyway, just wanted peoples thoughts.

Cheers
Richard.

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Difficult one. You should allow a few weeks to allow the shock of the situation to subside a little. Then you can think about it objectively. Also you will have some idea of how your wife is recuperating.

Not really an answer to your problem, I hope your wife gets through it with no more issues.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Don't be thinking of a claim immediately.

If she's OK and has no complications as a result then to be honest I wouldn't bother with the hassle.
Because I can assure you there will be hassle involved.
I've been in a long drawn battle with a hospital trust with my Brother & Sister over the death of my brother through negligence of certain staff.
Hospital did their own "investigation" and even shot themselves in the foot revealing staff trying to cover up mistakes and filling in stuff after the time of death.


If all is we'll, then just treat it is one of lifes wee journeys

Snazy

I would agree with Myles. The human body is a small tight place to do things, and you are right "these things do happen" BUT.... there are some op's that are considered risky, and other should pose no problem. A medical solicitor would usually be able to advise on this.

On the flip side, if surgeons were NOT willing to do their job due to the risk of complications, there would have been no procedure in the first place.
Possible complications for op's can be quite scary, likelyhood of it happening, very small.

I hope your wife makes a fast and full recovery. In the meantime, dig about, check possible complications for the procedure, and more interesting, see if you can find out if this has happened with this surgeon before.

At the end of the day medical staff at most places do an amazing job, and do things to the human body that were not possible 20 years ago. Without due cause, lets not scare them away from a life saving profession.

Tidgy

yeah as said back away and calm down first. the doctor should be covered by profesional liability insurance (i think thats the right name for it anyway) which should cover situations like this.

fighting a case like that will be a very long and drawn out thing, prob years rather than weeks, so be prepared for the long haul if you go down that route.

might be worth giving a lawyer a ring and filling them in and getting proper legal advice as to what you can and can;t do and what steps would need to be taken and when.

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys - completely agree. No rush to do anything and if she recovers fine then we'll let it lie.

Just needed someone else to tell me that too

Cheers
Richard.

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Good man.

Lee247

Hope she gets better soon. It must have been traumatic for you and her but at least the after care seems to be really good.

Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery so you can put this behind you

hodgy0_2

it is a difficult one (and no right and wrong - you have to do what you think is best) but

i got rear ended a few years ago, and I spent 2 years tying to get "no win no fee solicitors" of my back, as they were desperate for me to make a claim regarding a possible neck injury - I didn't have one so didn't claim (although the solicitors didn't seem to think that detail mattered too much)

so i don't agree with mindlessly suing people

but in your case

surely a Private Hospital is a business (unlike the NHS) and they fvcked up

they have insurance (they are a business) so I would sue

if they had done it free then I wouldn’t sue

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Yes, that point was something I considered.

If it was NHS then I wouldn't have thought twice about making any claim, but walking outside the private hospital to make the phone call to my wife's parents, squeezing past the consultants DB9's and top of the range CLS's and Range Rovers, didn't help.

Thanks for everyone's kind wishes.

hodgy0_2

precisely

and good luck to your wife

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Richard, I'm sorry to hear about your wife and I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.

What have your healthcare insurers had to say on the matter? Do they have someone who can advise you on this? As they will be paying for the extra treatment required will they claim on the surgeon's insurance?

I think you need professional advice, at least that way you will have all the information you need. You can then make an informed decision whether to act upon it or not.

Sal

David Lock

I do hope your wife makes a full and speedy recovery.

I think you need to establish whether what happened is a known and acceptable risk or was this negligence/incompetence by a surgeon, perhaps with insufficient experience and/or not supervised properly. Were you warned that this risk existed?

Quite how you do this I am not sure but I guess lawyers working in this field would have medics that they can ask.

I am set against the suing culture but.......

All the best, dl

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Sal.

The insurers (Aviva) didn't seem that bothered when I phoned them this morning - just confirmed that they would cover the stay. I asked them why they would pay the hospital, as surely the hospital should pay for the stay and procedures that were down to their own error, but the call handler didn't know.

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

This wasn't a risk we were told about - as the procedure was a very common/low risk one (she was due to be out of hospital the same day and back to work within 24 hours).

That bad luck was not really in cutting through the uterus (which of course shouldn't happen - it was the surgeons mistake) but that the small bowel was caught. It didn't rupture but the blood supply to it was compromised and that was why they had to open her up from the top and remove around 4 inches of her small bowel.

This really is a tough one for me, and I will wait a good few weeks to see how I feel, as I also don't like the suing culture.

As I said above, if it was the NHS then I wouldn't think twice, but given that we've paid for this privately, it does alter my thinking somewhat.

Leslie

Very sorry to hear about the problems and hope they all sort out satisfactorily.

I feel the same way as you about suing a hospital. In this case it was more likely to be due to the complication of the job rather than incompetence or bad procedure and I would be on the side of accepting it that way rather than going off to the lawyers. Best to let it all settle perhap's and if all is well then you can think again.

Les

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

What I might end up doing is seeing if the private hospital group will pay for a driver for my wife for the 6 weeks she can't drive for - as that is going to cause us real practical issues and cost due to her job.

David Lock

Sorry Les I don't agree with that. With respect neither you, I or the OP are in a position to judge whether or not this was incompetence by the surgeon and I would want to know. dl

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

I've been advised by a family friend (who sits on a medical board) to get a full report on what happened in theatre. Not so much for now, but in case she gets bowel problems later in life and the report could help if the damage is detailed out.

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

It sounds like the kind of thing that would have made me very angry in the first instance, I think the advice above is mostly spot on, Give it some time, be thankful the Mrs is safe and well and weigh up if you want a 3 year legal battle hanging over you or if you want to chalk it up as experience and move on.

Kinni

Working in the medical industry and running a business that sells lasers and trains surgeons and nurses on how to use them etc and watching and being involved in lots of such like cases for urology and what not I can say it's pretty much unheard of this happening.

Speaking to my old man who's been in the business since the 70's he's said without a shadow of doubt he would sue. They've carried out the procedure totally wrong.

He advised to check the surgeons credentials firstly to see how experienced he/she is in cases like this for a start.

Personally I would sue. The Private Hospital will have to run it's own panel on what happened anyway but it's got insurances for things like this. It wouldn't be a long drawn out affair in my opinion as it's pretty clear what the issue is. I'd imagine they'd make a quick settlement offer within 28 days.

Check the surgeons credentials though to see how experienced they are and if they've had these issues before.

Why should you spend 6 weeks without driving, added time in hospital and have a scar for life and not expect some form of compensation. Even yourself you've said it'll cause you financial issues whilst she's confined to the home.

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

If it can be resolved in 28 days then go for it, I would be amazed but go for it. I spend most of my days either preparing defense cases or lawsuits and in the past 12 years I have never finalised a case in 28 days.
To be honest you have to allow 30 days for the initial response.

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Thanks again for everyone's input.

If (big IF) we go down the claim route - are you best to use a local solicitor or go with one of those tacky lawyers4u type outfits?

Cheers
Richard.

Leslie

Don't know how easy it would be to find out about that. I suppose that like Scotsman, I don't lean towards the claim culture.

Les

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much most solicitors now will offer a no win no fee in some cases. Unless its a BIG suit there is nothing wrong with the likes of Russell Jones and Walker etc. They are more aggressive in some cases as they only get paid if they win, Its a bit of a myth that there are bad solicitors they are just lightly less ethical in some cases, but if they are working for you then that is exactly what you want.

If you approached our medical expert you would be looking at £500 to get the initial letter out to them to inform them you plan to sue and to allow them a response.
I would imagine it will cost you between £5000 - £7000 if it all goes to plan, this could be increased by up to 10 fold if it goes to crown.

Try a place like this Medical Negligence No Win No Fee Compensation but in my professional opinion be prepared for this to last about 3 years.

NotoriousREV

We're currently suing our GP and other medical professionals. We've been told that the key to a successful outcome of suing them is whether or not the average doctor etc. would have been expected to pick up the problem and what the lasting effects of the alleged mistake are. So, in your situation, if nicking the small bowel was an understood risk (by the doctors, not by you) and she recovers fine, you more than likely won't get anywhere.

Also, be prepared that your solicitors will bung loads of costs on. Ours wanted to charge £150 to get a nurse to put medical records in order. When we pointed out that as they were printed of a computer system they were already in order, suddenly it was deemed not necessary.

Leslie

Many a slip then!

Les

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Thanks again. Lots to think about.

I think asking for a report as to what specifically happened would help me - as somehow the uterus was breached -and what instrument was that done by. I think it was just down to the surgeon making a slip, cutting through the uterus and compromising the small bowl. It will be interesting to know what sort of cutting edge the instrument had, and how exactly the mistake happened.

That way I'd get a better feel as to whether or not is was carelessness or just bad luck.

GlesgaKiss

Without trying to sound cold, I think it's best put down to the fact that 'these things happen'. If you get the report and it proves that it was just bad luck, as you say, I would let it lie. If it was something that was caused by laziness, like poor hygiene practice, then that would be a different story IMO. I can imagine your emotions will be running high at the moment though!

Hope your wife makes a good recovery.

For what it's worth, my Mum had a bad experience at the hands of the NHS which was down to just plain laziness. A missed fracture and then a lovely dose of MRSA, which resulted in having to leave hospital with open wounds and spend the best part of a year in a wheelchair. She was compensated, but it was fraction of the kind of payouts you read about in the papers for very minor problems.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

The OP really needs to take advise from a firm of solicitors conversant with Medical negligence.....The usual test for medical negligence is the "Modified Bolam Test",

Bolam v Friern Hospital Management Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

however this is clouded by Lord Dennigs ruling (as master of the Rolls) when talking about medical "accidents"...the accepted interpretation is that "an accident is not necessarily negligence"

so was it negligence which is actionable or an accident which is not.? hence the need to take advice.

Hope the recovery is full and uneventful.

Shaun