scoobymad555

iTrader: (1)

One of those "cop" programs on this evening, a part of the country has apparently introduced "new pro-active laws" to prevent against trouble caused by excessive alcohol consumption. A female officer goes out in a patrol car with her colleague specifically looking for people on the streets with alcohol. Ok .... seems reasonable and quite sensible. They then divulge further that they're not looking for people already drinking but people that might begin drinking. WTF?!

They've received a "report" of some young lads leaving a supermarket with a crate of beer. They manage to find the lads who state that they're old enough to buy alcohol and that they're walking home with their beer - the box UNOPENED. The female officer informs them that she's confiscating the beer and then seems surprised when she meets resistance from the lads who tell her to get lost. Her reasoning was that they'd drink it and cause trouble later! In the end there's a bit of pushing and shoving which results in one lad being arrested for obstructing an officer and the beer being confiscated. Lad ends up at the nick where he's released by the duty sergeant along with his beer due to no reasonable grounds. The female officer genuinely seemed disappointed and miffed that her arrest hadn't stuck

Ok granted, the lads were a bit gobby and to be fair they may well have gone on to cause trouble but since when did policing get technology out of "the minority report" ?!?! Last I knew, the law of the land was innocent UNTIL proven guilty - you do actually have to DO something in order to be proven guilty of it! Would also have to say that the officer in question was an absolute heavy handed cow that completely provoked the entire situation purely so she could get a nick one way or another!

chris270181

if that would of been me stopped on them grounds i think i would of also gotten a bit gobby. Makes you wonder what goes through their minds

Jamescsti

She has clearly got the offence wrong, there is a power where an officer can seize an "open vessell" of alcohol in a public place in "designated areas"

The open vesell being a can, bottle etc
The designated public place is usually setup by the local council.

She got it wrong and probably felt very stupid afterwards

nik52wrx

Having watched it i have to agree o.t.t.
They had paid for it, the box wasn't opened so i can't see how you can take it away on the grounds they might get drunk later and cause trouble.
All that happened was several teenagers now have a very low opinion of the police farce, sorry force.

richs2891

I saw this and thought it was completely wrong and simply did more to promote bad policing displayed by certain members of the police force than anything.

Unsure why it was chosen to be shown on tv.

Richard

fatherpierre

Didn't see it, but it sounds like a major error on the officer's front.

Shown to put egg on someone's face, and rightly so.

MattW

I watched it, thought it was outrageous.

cster

The Police will always "try it on" when it comes to pushing the boundaries of their executive powers.
'Tis the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

fatherpierre

Probably a training need for a probationer.

tkws5606

having watched a few of these police reality shows half of the people they nick are not really doing any thing wrong then along comes plod and provokes a reaction just to show another collar being felt on the tv
I think it is because watching them sit on their ***** eating mcdonalds would not make for good telly

what would scooby do

I watched it and IMHO she should be sacked. The last piece she did to camera was along the lines "some get away" IIRC - when in fact the police should have been making an apology.

But still they were mouth breathing knuckle dragging chavs...


Nice to see they failed to paint Whitby in a bad light unlike most cop programs which concentrate two years of crime into 60 mins of TV

scoobymad555

iTrader: (1)

Well they said "law" in the program and were specifically referring to policing action BEFORE the drink had been opened or consumed. I can only assume that they were actually talking about a local by-law.

You have to wonder what bright spark came up with that idea though and worse yet, how they thought it was actually gonna fly .... the legal eagles on here would be able to state more accurately but I can't help thinking that it infringes on basic human rights, victimisation (unless they start nicking middle-age mum's walking home with their shopping too) and even bordering on theft since they're taking something that the victim (I do use that word deliberately) has every legal right to be in the possession of. Methinks the force could even potentially be looking at legal action against them if they pull that trick on the wrong person!

I'll bet they tucked it through the system nice and quiet like too!

Felix.

It could have been a 'dispersal' type town law passed by the local court or council. If so they can pass a law where alcohol (either open or closed) can not be in a certain place at a certain time. We have one in and around the town centre where anyone found to be in possession on the street will have it taken off them.

However, local authorities can make a total hash of the wording of such. We had one that stated a person "could not be in possession of a container of alcohol open or otherwise" - whatever that meant...?

Did seem a bit OTT to me, especially if it was still boxed and the lads were not your usual drunken ****

cster

...Yet

cster

I'm thinking more on an institutional level.
Some of the things that come to mind are
-some forces setting up what are in effect random breath test stations
-the "kettling" tactics used in public order situations
-some of the dubious uses the anti terror legislation seems to be put to.

I am sure in all of these instances the police think they are doing the public a favour, but I do feel uncomfortable with what I feel are potential areas for abuse of executive power.

In a "democratic" society, we should always be on our guard in such matters.

Xx-IAN-xX

Should she not be charged for theft

mrtheedge2u2

Sounds like she needs a big badge saying "I am a police officer... what comes out of my mouth may be a) wrong b) complete ****e c) make you want to sterilse me for the good of the gene pool"

Felix.

If there is some sort of order in place, then she has acted lawfully. It could be that the community in that area are sick of drunks and drinkers in the street, so they have managed to persuade a court to pass this bylaw for a certain length of time to see the effect. If that is the case then she is acted on what the local community are wanting and expecting of the police. Is this not what they are paying their taxes for..?

The arrest was for obstruct police and not for having the alcohol as such. The custody sergeant obviously thought there were insufficient grounds.

Another way to have done this (probably the way I would have done it) achieving the same result and not get peoples backs up. Take the alcohol from them plus one of the males and give them a lift back to their house. This way public see the police taking a tough stance, lads are happy because he is getting a lift and is keeping his alcohol. Police are happy as they get the alcohol off the street, see the house where they are going to and know the other lads will follow on - plus forge a friendly link with the lads which may prove of value later (intel, etc)

Leslie

This sort of attitude by the coppers seems to becoming worse in different ways. I wonder if it is down to the way they are trained now and that they are being given the wrong idea about the importance of relations with the public.

This sort of idea is well over the top, those lads were completely within their rights and to start suspecting them of drunken behaviour etc before they have even opened the box is totally ridiculous. At least the desk sergeant was using his nous.

It is a worry to see such an attitude creeping in.

Les

Leslie

So the "Quid pro quo" is the real important bit then!

That kind of law,local or otherwise is beyond the pale!

Les

Felix.

But if that area has been hit by drunks, drunken disorder etc, to the point where the public are sick to the back teeth - is it not right that the local court can pass a bylaw in favour of the community majority.

How many times have forums been placed on here about the police not getting tough with the causes of crime - or are you now wanting us to wait until they get drunk and put a bin through someone’s front window.....again.

All the power does is give the police ability to take alcohol from people.

Leslie

It is not about being tough on crime in this instance. It is the police being given the power to restrict peoples' actions just in case they might do something wrong when at the time they have done nothing to indicate that they are about to or have even already done it. Carrying an unopened box of beer home is not against the law!

Can you not see the difference Felix?

Suspicion is one thing, but actually doing it is different. If they are shouting and waving beercans etc in the air and causing a public nuisance that is fair enough and you should indeed react and that means taking them in charge, as well as the beer.

What sort of cooperation do you think you would get from the public if you went the way you describe? You would be seen very quickly to have an exaggerated idea of your own importance.

Les

Hanley

If that's true then how the hell are you meant to get your drink home once you've purchased it in a supermarket / off licence?

Based on what's been said it seems the lads in question had bought a crate of lager and were simply carrying it home....how else can they get it home??

Kinni

Yet when some shady people were hanging around the garages recently and I ran the old bill stating 2 lads and a car have been parked at the back of the garages for a few hours now and they look like they keep spotting a car the police said till they'd done something nothing could be done, however they'd send someone by to check it out.

In the morning a guy down the road woke up to see his van had been broke into.

Guess the police were busy stopping someone who might cause a problem rather than people who actually are.

Felix.

It will probably be a set area in which you can't have alcohol in. So either go a different route or go by car.

Felix.

Well that advice was clearly wrong. There is loads we can do and often just turning up is enough to put them off. This is one problem we have in civilianising sections of the police (like the control room).

This is another topic but basically the radios we have have a GPS system on it. They know which jobs they have sent us to and what might be involved, so they should route us to jobs such as this one which may only need a drive by. Often the police units don't hear about jobs such as this one until it’s too late, or if at all. If a job like that stays on the queue for a few hours it will probably just be closed off.

Hanley

Sorry mate but that's just bollox..surely it's my human right to be able to walk down any street carrying alcohol that I've purchased, yes if I open it and start drinking then that's another matter.

Another case of this country going to the f****ing dogs.

Even if I'm carrying alcohol home the police shouldn't have the right to confiscate it if it's unopened.

Police should be using some common sense which clearly didn't happen in this case.

Felix.

No It’s not one of your human rights. Those are right to follow a faith, rights to have a family, rights not to be tortured etc etc....

As I said before, I don't know if there is a by law or what the back ground to it was - but I'm guessing that a long list of alcohol problems have prompted the community and court to seek an alcohol ban in a certain area.

We have one around the town centre during a weekend where any alcohol cannot be outside of a pub or nightclub. Seems to work OK - not many bottlings or taxis with bottles through their windscreens and not many people complain now.

And, also like I said before, we do have discretion and I would have dealt with the matter differently.

It’s funny though – some people want us to be more pro-active that re-active, then situations like this happen and we get a whole host of complaints the other way. At the end of the day, we are just taking alcohol off people – I dare say that this will be taken back to the nick and they can get it back the next day.

Hanley

Okay, say for instance I have 6 cans of Fosters in a carrier bag, I've just purchased them and I'm walking home to watch the match - do you confiscate them from me?

Due to the propaganda by this government I've decided to help the environment and walk home from the off licence rather than drive.

Hanley

No Felix people just expect you, as intelligent people, to use a bit of common sense, judgement and, if necessary, discretion.

I'm sure most of you do but when things like this are shown on TV it doesn't do your image any good.