stuart n

A sign of what may lay ahead for the next government was released this morning when a report was issued saying that the NHS is facing a funding short fall of between £8 to £10 billion after 2011.

Only the start of things, whoever wins the next election will have to slash spending and hike taxes. All thanks to the "prudence years" of Gordon.

BBC NEWS | Health | NHS 'faces huge budget shortfall'

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

Tip of the iceberg, When a party that counts gets into power we are going to discover debts and shortfalls all over the shop.
I think its Labours long game, Make the next party un popular by hiking up tax and then they will get back into power with there unique form of socialism.

SunnySideUp

Labour will stand by the NHS after 2011 if in power ........ of that you can be certain.

If the NHS is important to you then you need to think whether another party would support it or go fully private ..... the choice will be yours in the Ballot box.

spireite

As anyone else noticed Flash as stopped using the word prudence

cster

IMO, the NHS is a giant dogmatic creation that is not fit for purpose.
The amount of wastage that goes on is a joke.
To say it could do with a little trimming is an understatement.
When it came out it was a good idea, but it should have shrunk over the years as people grew healthier and wealthier.
Alas, that is not the nature of government funded bureaucracies is it?
"Second rate one size fits all in the name of equality" is their mantra.
That of two legged pigs at the trough of self interest (with apologies to G. Orwell) is closer to the truth.

SunnySideUp

The reason they were healthier is because of the NHS, thus we desired more of a good thing ... this costs more.

But we were becoming more affluent, working longer with less illness, so we could pay for it.

We improved it and we got healthier again, we pay more and live better lives.

Absolutely nothing wrong with this cycle IMO ... yes, there is waste, there always is.

Leslie

If the Trusts were not seriously overpaid and employed so many unnecessary and expensive managers to run their useless target system, so much more money would go to the sharp end where it is needed more.

Les

SunnySideUp

Things HAVE improved hugely in the NHS Les ..... you must admit that?

cster

IMO, if you think the NHS makes people healthier, you are a fool.
Changes in life style are what make people healthier.
Why don't you spend tomorrow morning observing the waiting room of your local GP and then have a chat with them at lunch time to discuss the percentage of their time spent dealing with disease caused by obesity, smoking, lack of exercise,drinking etc etc.
Then go and have a similar chat with dentists, A&E workers,nurses etc etc.
If anything, it could be argued that one result of free health care, is that it causes people not to take their health seriously. I think that is certainly the case in this country.
As people became wealthier, they should have been empowered to take care of their own health and not been taxed into poverty, in order to pay for such a second rate system.
The best laugh is, that many people who live in this country, honestly believe that the NHS is the envy of the world.

stilover

We should get rid of free health care.

Government stops taking money out of our wage bills so we can all pay for private health care. This then gets rid of the "Holiday NHS". People flying into Britain for free health care at mine and your's expense.

Last time I was in the Hospital (Burnt hand) the waiting room was half British and half immigrants.

My mates wife is a nurse, and she has a manager, who has a manager, who has a manager..................

ronjeramy

iTrader: (1)

What about NHS dentist's then Pete? You saying their better now? Most are now private, since Labour came to power

David Lock

If we got out of Europe we would, according to UKIP, save £40m per day. This would pay for much of the alleged NHS shortfall.

So which is better to throw our money at?

dl

Dedrater

I say dissolve the NHS anyway and get people to pay for there health care, the US have the right idea.

EddScott

The NHS will not last much longer in its current form irrespective of who is in power.

I don't believe we are healthier people. For every 1 wealthy there is 5 unwealthy and more often than not these 5 wil lbe the ones with the smoking, drinking and poor diet.

Abolish the current tax system, abolish the current NI system and introduce 3 clearly defined taxes. Income tax, health insurance, pension funding. Clear taxes for clear benefits.

The conservatives closed the mines and sold privatised national infrastructure. This created masses of unemployed. These unemployed never worked again. These unemployed lived on the same estates which caused these estates to become lawless sh*teholes. These people never worked again and smoked and drank their doll money away. These people while not drinking and smoking where ******** and creating babies left right and centre. These babies watched their parents do f*ck all so thought we'll do the same. These babies realised that if they have babies they get a free ride too. These babies babies did the same and on it goes. The creates huge strain on government resources and creates masses of unhealthy people.

You could argue that labour were lapdogs to the union, the conservatives started the rot with closure and privatisation. The conservatives screwed up the EU love making with UK and labour could do no wrong because even an idiot could make money and look good since the late 90s and the dot com thing was really only about the kids losing their pocket money. Now its all coming to a head and labour would do well to get out now. Let the conservatives flounder around for 4 years and blame labour for every screw up they can't fix.

The system is beyond use but what alternative is there?

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

What I don't get is why we have to subsidise free prescriptions for Scotland (Wales too? - not sure) when the Eeengleesh have to pay, what £7.20 a pop.

Thats not very fair is it?

(Not for me, I get my asthma inhalers free while I'm a jobless bum )

But a serious question above, something I just don't get

EddScott

We don't pay in wales. Also from today, those welsh people collecting a subscription in england can reclaim the payment.

My father in-law had the brass ones to actually complain to me that wales residents don't pay for their subscriptions. I pointed out that both he and mother in law are on the sick and don't have to pay anyway.

cster

You still with the Missus?

ChrisB

Improved by what measurement?

Deep Singh

You sure the immigrants weren't the doctors?

stuart n

It's interesting the new health secretary said the NHS needs to be "leaner".
I work on many "lean" projects as part of my job (which incidently is at 1 of the biggest suppliers of medical equipement to the NHS) and it's a posh way of saying we need to make things more efficient and make cuts where necessary.
My biggest grumble with this government is that they seem to throw huge amounts of money at problems without looking at the complete picture. It may grab the headlines saying we'll invest say £100 million in the health service but it may only need £10 million to improve things.
1 way the NHS can save money instantly is to reduce the number of unnecessary caesarean sections. Based on 2004 figures 8.9% of these procedures are performed each year for no reason. Each section costs £2500 so based on that the NHS could save a huge amount of money each year.

As I said before, the next government will have to be seen to be saving money as opposed to spending it.

EddScott

This was a while ago. We are together on a "last chance saloon" basis. Fortunately we aren't married so she can't take half of my f*ck all but I get little say with our daughter.

However, I digress...

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

I live in Scotland and I completely agree with what you say. Why abolish prescription charges for those that can afford it? Stupid idea.

I have an allergy medicine that has just recently become available over the counter. So I now pay for it instead of picking up my repeat prescription, as I can easily afford it.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Dunno if your post was sarcasm Ross, but I was pointing at equality. If the average English working person has to pay £7.20 a pop (per item on the prescription), but their Scottich/Welsh counterpart doesn't... how is that fair.

This isn't a debate about working or not as you'll see I'm comparing a working Scot/Welshy with a working Engerlander.

Thats my point

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

Completely wrong end of the stick mate, no sarcasm in my post what so ever

I was agreeing with you. I think that people who can afford to pay a prescription charge should do so across the UK. Giving free prescriptions now to those that used to pay because they didnt meet the free prescriptions criteria is just stupid IMO.

I'm not sure that the English subsidise the more generous prescription situation in Wales and Scotland though. The budgets given to the devolved parliaments are set at a certain level as far as I am aware and it is then up to those parliaments how it is spent.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

No worries Ross, with the stick I get for being a "bum" I get on the defensive easily

I didn't realise there was a set budget and that the relivent countries governing body can spend it as they wish, so kinda dilutes my question

Leslie

Well I have always said that the three major operations I have had on NHS have been very well done and I was well treated in hospital. I do think however that was down to the staff at the sharp end who do all they can for the patients for altruistic reasons. I do remember how they were always short of what they needed, especially the furniture etc., shortage of pillows so they had to issue folded blankets instead etc.

The vast majority of the cash put into the NHS seems to have been wasted with large salaries and excessive employment of managers etc in the trusts. So much of that cash could have done so much more good at the sharp end and the staff are being restricted in what they can do by having to achieve targets which just slow them down from the real work!

Les

pwhittle

isn't that made up though? the current spending review end in 2010/11, and the next one won't be announed until the last minute, so nobody knows what the spend will be.

not defending the goernment though - working for local government, you quickly learn how central government deflects blame by devolving budgets, then blaming local management when it goes t!ts up due to their targets being impossible to meet given the level of funding. Then ehan a PCT gets into the red, what do they do to help? THEY FINE THEM!