So gord's survived .......
09 June 2009, 08:00 AM
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Polly Toynbee the arch Labour apologist from the Guardian seems to disagree.
Dazed, gripped by delusion, the party tonight bottled it | Polly Toynbee | Comment is free | The Guardian
Dazed, gripped by delusion, the party tonight bottled it | Polly Toynbee | Comment is free | The Guardian
09 June 2009, 08:28 AM
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09 June 2009, 09:05 AM
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Polly Toynbee the arch Labour apologist from the Guardian seems to disagree.
Dazed, gripped by delusion, the party tonight bottled it | Polly Toynbee | Comment is free | The Guardian
Dazed, gripped by delusion, the party tonight bottled it | Polly Toynbee | Comment is free | The Guardian
09 June 2009, 09:13 AM
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He accepted that his ruling Labour Party had suffered a "painful defeat" in local and European elections but said people would not forgive the government if it "walked away from our responsibilities".
Whatever you think of him, and I am no fan whatsoever, he is right ...... Labour cannot walk away - believing, as they do (and I agree with them on this), that no other party would do any better.
Whatever you think of him, and I am no fan whatsoever, he is right ...... Labour cannot walk away - believing, as they do (and I agree with them on this), that no other party would do any better.
09 June 2009, 09:25 AM
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Hey Pete,
I think the public are desperately waiting for him to walk away.
The only real question of those who think beyond this is whether the current void in Parliamentary leadership will be replaced by an equal or even greater vacuum.
That question in itself of course does not excuse Brown from being the very worst Prime Minister in recent, or even long, memory.
I think the public are desperately waiting for him to walk away.
The only real question of those who think beyond this is whether the current void in Parliamentary leadership will be replaced by an equal or even greater vacuum.
That question in itself of course does not excuse Brown from being the very worst Prime Minister in recent, or even long, memory.
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09 June 2009, 09:48 AM
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TBH, they have had their chance, and made a woeful mess. Read Polly Toynbee.
It's time someone else had a go. And I'm NOT a Tory apologist: I too worked and lived the Thatcher years, in a job MUCH less well looked after than yours,
and I loathed the woman, and everything she stood for.Unfortunately, I now feel the same re Brown and Bliar..........and as for Alan Johnson, PLEEEEEEEEEASE, can Britain REALLY be led by an ex-postie who left shool at 15?
09 June 2009, 09:56 AM
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But would others do worse, Pete? And do we stick with this shower of sh*te just because we are afraid? Is THAT the spirit that won at Agincourt? Or on the beaches?
TBH, they have had their chance, and made a woeful mess. Read Polly Toynbee.
It's time someone else had a go. And I'm NOT a Tory apologist: I too worked and lived the Thatcher years, in a job MUCH less well looked after than yours, and I loathed the woman, and everything she stood for.
Unfortunately, I now feel the same re Brown and Bliar..........and as for Alan Johnson, PLEEEEEEEEEASE, can Britain REALLY be led by an ex-postie who left shool at 15?
TBH, they have had their chance, and made a woeful mess. Read Polly Toynbee.
It's time someone else had a go. And I'm NOT a Tory apologist: I too worked and lived the Thatcher years, in a job MUCH less well looked after than yours,
and I loathed the woman, and everything she stood for.Unfortunately, I now feel the same re Brown and Bliar..........and as for Alan Johnson, PLEEEEEEEEEASE, can Britain REALLY be led by an ex-postie who left shool at 15?
09 June 2009, 10:03 AM
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OK, I'll try: what qualifications does he have? Why did he end his education at 15, when the party he serves now INSIST on 17 and are moving it to 18?
In what way is he QUALIFIED to be Prime Minister?
Just out of interest, Martin, do you ALWAYS argue black is white?
09 June 2009, 10:11 AM
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You need THAT explained?
OK, I'll try: what qualifications does he have? Why did he end his education at 15, when the party he serves now INSIST on 17 and are moving it to 18?
In what way is he QUALIFIED to be Prime Minister?
Just out of interest, Martin, do you ALWAYS argue black is white?
OK, I'll try: what qualifications does he have? Why did he end his education at 15, when the party he serves now INSIST on 17 and are moving it to 18?
In what way is he QUALIFIED to be Prime Minister?
Just out of interest, Martin, do you ALWAYS argue black is white?
Do you have to of attended Eton to become PM???
What has the governments school leaver age got to do with Alan Johnson and when he left school (do you even try and think things through before typing)? What the hell is he supposed to do about that?????
I guess you could argue that he's over-qualified to be PM given is background, I mean he's actually a 'real' person....
Plus I think he a damn genuine guy, who has run big whitehall departments, and stands out from any of the other 'rivals'
09 June 2009, 10:28 AM
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Apparently 61% of labour activists STILL think Gordon Brown can win the next election.
It's like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers with that lot.
I expect the other 39% have been sent for reprogramming (a new 'flash' update perhaps).
Kevin
It's like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers with that lot.
I expect the other 39% have been sent for reprogramming (a new 'flash' update perhaps).
Kevin
09 June 2009, 10:35 AM
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Alan Johnson - Alan Johnson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"... He joined the Labour Party in 1971, although he considered himself a Marxist ideologically aligned with the Communist Party of Great Britain.[3] A full-time union official from 1987, he became General Secretary of the newly-formed Communication Workers Union in 1993 following a series of union mergers ..."
For PM? I don't think so ...... people berate the BNP for actually winning seats. But with AJ we would have a Marxist ... "... Marxism is the political philosophy and practice derived from the works of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxism is an economic political theory by which law and money are considered instruments of oppression and control, and which the ruling class uses against the working class ..."
Same sh}t, different name .....
Dave
"... He joined the Labour Party in 1971, although he considered himself a Marxist ideologically aligned with the Communist Party of Great Britain.[3] A full-time union official from 1987, he became General Secretary of the newly-formed Communication Workers Union in 1993 following a series of union mergers ..."
For PM? I don't think so ...... people berate the BNP for actually winning seats. But with AJ we would have a Marxist ... "... Marxism is the political philosophy and practice derived from the works of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxism is an economic political theory by which law and money are considered instruments of oppression and control, and which the ruling class uses against the working class ..."
Same sh}t, different name .....
Dave
09 June 2009, 10:38 AM
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Alan Johnson - Alan Johnson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"... He joined the Labour Party in 1971, although he considered himself a Marxist ideologically aligned with the Communist Party of Great Britain.[3] A full-time union official from 1987, he became General Secretary of the newly-formed Communication Workers Union in 1993 following a series of union mergers ..."
For PM? I don't think so ...... people berate the BNP for actually winning seats. But with AJ we would have a Marxist ... "... Marxism is the political philosophy and practice derived from the works of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxism is an economic political theory by which law and money are considered instruments of oppression and control, and which the ruling class uses against the working class ..."
Same sh}t, different name .....
Dave
"... He joined the Labour Party in 1971, although he considered himself a Marxist ideologically aligned with the Communist Party of Great Britain.[3] A full-time union official from 1987, he became General Secretary of the newly-formed Communication Workers Union in 1993 following a series of union mergers ..."
For PM? I don't think so ...... people berate the BNP for actually winning seats. But with AJ we would have a Marxist ... "... Marxism is the political philosophy and practice derived from the works of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxism is an economic political theory by which law and money are considered instruments of oppression and control, and which the ruling class uses against the working class ..."
Same sh}t, different name .....
Dave
09 June 2009, 10:47 AM
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09 June 2009, 10:50 AM
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When the opportunity for power/money comes calling, union or university ethics are usually on a fastrack to the trash can where politicians are concerned.
Do you think New Labour apirations are in line with Johnson's union era propaganda. Not likely, but he seems happy enough towing the company line.
The hypocrisy in New Labour knows no boundaries.
Kevin
Do you think New Labour apirations are in line with Johnson's union era propaganda. Not likely, but he seems happy enough towing the company line.
The hypocrisy in New Labour knows no boundaries.
Kevin
09 June 2009, 10:52 AM
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When the opportunity for power/money comes calling, union or university ethics are usually on a fastrack to the trash can where politicians are concerned.
Do you think New Labour apirations are in line with Johnson's union era propaganda. Not likely, but he seems happy enough towing the company line.
The hypocrisy in New Labour knows no boundaries.
Kevin
Do you think New Labour apirations are in line with Johnson's union era propaganda. Not likely, but he seems happy enough towing the company line.
The hypocrisy in New Labour knows no boundaries.
Kevin
09 June 2009, 11:06 AM
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Brown can have no interest in public opinion at this stage. He knows he will lose power as soon as the electorate can have its say.
He hopes he can cling on until the summer break.. Then he is safe until September. All that matters now is how long his rag-tag bunch of no-hopers can keep their salaries because this is the last, the very last, Labour Administration.
The longer he holds on the worse it will get for Labour. History tells us this. Never has a British PM been publicly booed at a solemn occasion. This one was.
If he clings to power until summer there will be an election in the first week of October. His administration will be paralised in the meantime. Even were there support his new ministers will not have time to learn their new jobs. This is a marking time quango... because don't forget this administration has never been elected and it continues to appoint unelected mercenaries to its number.
The Monarch has the power to dissolve parliament. Never was there such a compelling case for this kind of intervention. If the Monarch fails this test then it is truly time to consider the position of the Monarch in the constitution.
He hopes he can cling on until the summer break.. Then he is safe until September. All that matters now is how long his rag-tag bunch of no-hopers can keep their salaries because this is the last, the very last, Labour Administration.
The longer he holds on the worse it will get for Labour. History tells us this. Never has a British PM been publicly booed at a solemn occasion. This one was.
If he clings to power until summer there will be an election in the first week of October. His administration will be paralised in the meantime. Even were there support his new ministers will not have time to learn their new jobs. This is a marking time quango... because don't forget this administration has never been elected and it continues to appoint unelected mercenaries to its number.
The Monarch has the power to dissolve parliament. Never was there such a compelling case for this kind of intervention. If the Monarch fails this test then it is truly time to consider the position of the Monarch in the constitution.
09 June 2009, 11:09 AM
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Changing the leader now is a pointless exercise, short of an act of God there is absolutely no chance of a Labour win next election.
Getting rid of Brown only makes sense if the change improves the chances of their MPs keeping seats next time around. That involves finding a new leader that impresses the public, not their own crappy members, and there is simply no-one in the party who fulfills that requirement.
A new leader now would be nothing more than a caretaker as anyone with ambitions for PM will not wish to be tarred with the brush of catastrophic defeat soon after taking the job.
If you think Johnson is future PM material you must be kidding yourself.
A significant proportion of the population may have a problem with old Etonians, but the successful election of a well-spoken, well-educated candidate that doesn't have a history of well-documented left-of-centre behaviour is always likely. The country doesn't want revolutionaries, it's too risky.
Kevin
Getting rid of Brown only makes sense if the change improves the chances of their MPs keeping seats next time around. That involves finding a new leader that impresses the public, not their own crappy members, and there is simply no-one in the party who fulfills that requirement.
A new leader now would be nothing more than a caretaker as anyone with ambitions for PM will not wish to be tarred with the brush of catastrophic defeat soon after taking the job.
If you think Johnson is future PM material you must be kidding yourself.
A significant proportion of the population may have a problem with old Etonians, but the successful election of a well-spoken, well-educated candidate that doesn't have a history of well-documented left-of-centre behaviour is always likely. The country doesn't want revolutionaries, it's too risky.
Kevin
09 June 2009, 11:34 AM
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Changing the leader now is a pointless exercise, short of an act of God there is absolutely no chance of a Labour win next election.
Getting rid of Brown only makes sense if the change improves the chances of their MPs keeping seats next time around. That involves finding a new leader that impresses the public, not their own crappy members, and there is simply no-one in the party who fulfills that requirement.
A new leader now would be nothing more than a caretaker as anyone with ambitions for PM will not wish to be tarred with the brush of catastrophic defeat soon after taking the job.
If you think Johnson is future PM material you must be kidding yourself.
A significant proportion of the population may have a problem with old Etonians, but the successful election of a well-spoken, well-educated candidate that doesn't have a history of well-documented left-of-centre behaviour is always likely. The country doesn't want revolutionaries, it's too risky.
Kevin
Getting rid of Brown only makes sense if the change improves the chances of their MPs keeping seats next time around. That involves finding a new leader that impresses the public, not their own crappy members, and there is simply no-one in the party who fulfills that requirement.
A new leader now would be nothing more than a caretaker as anyone with ambitions for PM will not wish to be tarred with the brush of catastrophic defeat soon after taking the job.
If you think Johnson is future PM material you must be kidding yourself.
A significant proportion of the population may have a problem with old Etonians, but the successful election of a well-spoken, well-educated candidate that doesn't have a history of well-documented left-of-centre behaviour is always likely. The country doesn't want revolutionaries, it's too risky.
Kevin
I don't see how Alan Johnson, a perfectly decent man can cause you so much ideological panic, he's been nothing but centre ground NL for over a decade.
BTW I like David Cameron and think he'll be a good PM, my point about Etonians was that it shouldn't be about academic background, it should be about intellegence, policy and trust.
Last edited by Martin2005; 09 June 2009 at 11:36 AM.
09 June 2009, 11:43 AM
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A significant proportion of the population may have a problem with old Etonians, but the successful election of a well-spoken, well-educated candidate that doesn't have a history of well-documented left-of-centre behaviour is always likely. The country doesn't want revolutionaries, it's too risky.
2. Johnson is irrelevant
Kevin
09 June 2009, 11:50 AM
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Irrelevant to who and what? He's the Home Sec so I hope he's not irrelevant
09 June 2009, 12:04 PM
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Right now the cabinet is like a game of musical chairs.... they'll run out of players soon and start dragging people in off the street....'hello Alan, fancy a peerage mate?'.
I'm not going to start taking this government seriously anytime soon.
Kevin
09 June 2009, 12:05 PM
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09 June 2009, 12:10 PM
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Also who would you like to see as leader of Labour?
09 June 2009, 12:30 PM
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Labour may of had a chunk of the election votes last time around but in the last 3-4 years they have been self-imploding in fantastically funny fashion......
Lets face it, GB does not want to call an election as he likes to be the 'big man' and wants to hold that job as long as possible. Even when TB was in charge and doing an ok job GB was always going on with 'when you handing over to me, when you handing over to me?'
Lets face it, GB does not want to call an election as he likes to be the 'big man' and wants to hold that job as long as possible. Even when TB was in charge and doing an ok job GB was always going on with 'when you handing over to me, when you handing over to me?'
09 June 2009, 12:45 PM
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09 June 2009, 12:46 PM
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