Deep Singh

New Labour have signed the death sentence of this country. Calculations have shown that after taking the loss of personal allowance and pension relief into account approx 63% tax will be paid above £150k.
There will be no incentive to work hard especially for entrepeneurs etc.
It has been shown time and time again that when taxes go up, total tax take actually falls.

Labour has destroyed this countries economy, bankrupted it, made it 2nd rate, just like before.

We need a general election NOW! I know Cameron and Osbourne aren't perfect but Labour cannot solve this problem because they will never accept they caused it.

dpb

Never mind a bleedin petition/election i think we need an assassin

EddScott

Lets hope they close the gate on their way out eh?

And if we are all as smart as we pretend to be, we know that Labour are hardly the sole architects for this. Some would even say, some of those in the highest tax bracket and a hand in the economies downfall so perhaps one could possibly say to these people on the new tax bracket "Tough ****, old chum"

Labour had 10 years of the good life and got caught holding the ball when it all went south.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Higher taxes for all I say ie 40% across the board. We're all in the same boat then as 40% of £10k causes same "hurt" as 40% of £100k.

Higher %age taxes for higher earners will just lead to a f*ck you attitude where people can't be arsed to push themselves IMHO. Why don't we all sell up our houses, resign from our jobs etc & live on state benifits for a while ... see how their 50% tax helps them then

TX.

The Zohan

Morning!

Madness isn't it, the top people, the wealth creators are being humped!

Agree re elcetion and the opposition, not perfect but a better option.
I am sure Pete will be along shortly to tell you you are wrong mind

get most of the scroungers and career benefit cases off of thier comfy lifestyle maintaining benefits and into work for a start, should have been done some 10 years ag mind!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Exactly.

So Deep, if they admit they ****ed up, would that mean they are then able to fix the problems?

Very, very easy to point the finger, but I seriously don't want the tories in charge of this country.

Remember the last recession under Thatcher? Oh that's right, she sold everything we had to pay for people to sit at home and do jack ****. Having North Sea oil right now would be nice wouldn't it? At least Labour are providing jobs in the public sector, at least new projects are being drawn up and at least we have used this situation to our advantage by buying the banks. Yes, we are now more in debt more than ever, but we now own quite a few high profile banks.

All the tories wver did was sell sell sell.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

In part they didn't, but don't let that get in the way of another rant

And Cameron has already said that they will more than likely not change the tax situation so I think emigration is the only answer and yes I am serious.

The you can vote in who you like

stilover

Yeah, cos living on £6k a year is the same hurt as scrapping by on £60k a year

tanyatriangles

iTrader: (2)

Withdraw ALL foreign aid, bring back our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, and spend the money saved, on infrastructure improvements in the UK, starting with depressed areas in the north, rather than the relatively rich south-east.

Get people OFF handouts and into work supporting the improvements-anyone can labour, and there are skilled builders etc out there, out of work.
Use BRITISH companies wherever possible.

Oh and get shut of illegals IMMEDIATELY they are found, arrested or whatever. They have NO right to be here. Get rid.

Not rocket science, is it?

A bit similar to what Hitler did in Germany, before he went mad: their autobanhs are still some of the best in the world.

stilover

The thing is though, it will have no effect on the rich. They take a pay cut to £149,000 a year, thus avoiding higher tax band. Rest of their salary and bonus is made up of shares. Sell shares at the end of the year, and only pay 18% Tax.

New Labour are actually going to lose money. Nice on Flash.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Get a better / higher paid job then

40% across the board is fair ... why should a higher earner pay a higher %age?!

TX.

Deep Singh

Doesn't matter what you want, the Tories will win the next election.

What do you mean its easy to point the finger? Anybody with half a brain can see that Labour is responsible for the dire state of the economy.

And you must be off your head if you think the way to have a prosperous country in the long term is to strangle the wealth makers with taxes to provide more public sector jobs

Mitchy260

Not quite true,

The PA is being withdrawn at £2 for every £ on earnings over £100k. Seeing as the PA is currently at £6475, the PA will be fully withdrawn at approx £113k earnings.

So between £100-£113k they will be taxed at 40% BUT will lose their PA on a sliding scale within that £13k range. Someone has worked it out that between these ranges, you are 'taxed' at 60% because of the removal of the PA.

The 50% rate does not come in until £150k+, anything below that is taxed at 40%. NI is only 1% regardless.

They are discussing marginal rates here, no-one will be getting taxed at 63% in entirety.

You need to earn approx £650k pa to pay a true 40% in taxation.

Believe it or not we have a low high rate income tax at 40% and have been 'lucky' all these years. It should be 50% in line with a lot of other countries.

Leslie

They have pissed our money against the wall with their profligate overspending which has not done the people of this country any good anyway.

They inherited a strong economy when they took power and spent the last 12 years just wasting it all for nothing better than to con us that their handling of the economy was "prudent", and to increase the number of government employees by an enormous amount-half of them don't even know what is required in the non-jobs that they are in. They have also encouraged those who do not feel like working with all those benefits they throw at them.

All that time they did nothing to reduce the National debt but instead they overborrowed in order to finance their spending habits and even flogged off half of the gold reserves at the lowest price that was available! One might well think that they were deliberately sinking our economy!

As soon as the world recession appeared, largely because they and others did not regulate the bankers since they were getting lots of cash from their efforts, then we were in this big hole since they have got no money left to fall back on. Now they have to borrow billions which we and our descendants will have to repay in taxes for many years to come, as well as effectively printing extra money which is a third world trick and will only bite back eventually.

Do you really think they were not wholly to blame for our present economic mess Ed?

Les

Deep Singh

I agree in that higher tax rates often mean lower tax rates. However not everbody will be able to use that method, not everybody can be paid in shares and I think they have increased the tax on dividend aswell to counter that.

In principle this is an anti aspirational tax, it tells the country we don't like wealtmakers, we will punish you if you suceed. If you're a teenage mother with 5 kids from different fathers we'll give you a house to live in though

I

stilover

40% is not fair. Not to those on the minimum wage. Those who are on low income just cannot afford to start paying 40%.

If that ever came in, you'd see 1000's of people on low incomes quiting their jobs and living off the state. Leaving middle income & high earners having to pay more and more.

New Labour have f00ked this country up good and proper, but at least we don't have you in charge. 40% across the board? You'd make us bankrupt within a month.

Petem95

I don't think it matters what Labour do now - they've completely shafted the country.

Pretty much all the jobs they've created have been in the public sector - and all those jobs have generous pensions, which the tax-payer has no chance of being able to pay in the future.

Virtually all the country's assets have been sold off (Brown sold off most of the UK's gold reserves when gold was at rock-bottom prices).

They're now faced with ever-falling income, and increasing outgoings paying for welfare and public sector pensions. The financial crisis has put a stop the city bringing in loads of money, and north sea oil supplies are dwindling.

Even in the good times Labour were having to borrow hugely to keep their current spending levels up - now things have collapsed surely it's cap-in-hand to IMF time again soon, and the start of terminal decline for UK living standards.

EddScott

Indeed, we are still relatively cheap for high earners in the UK.

Don't remember quite this much complaining when they scrapped the 10% rate. That really helped didn't it. But at least Terminator X thinks high paid jobs grows on trees so we we won't miss the 10% rate.

Oh, and NI is going up in the near future too.

Scrap NI, raise all rates by 3 or 4 % to cover the difference plus all of what TT mentioned - plus some national service to get a bit of discipline into the yoof of today.

Oh - give the Olympics back and buy a share in Donnington.

hodgy0_2

quite right --- I said the same in an earlier thread, UK PLC has had a low tax regime for quite along time, at least 15 years

plus as a %tage of income the lowest paid pay the highest in Tax, that cant be fair can it

Mitchy260

If you are earning £200k pa, you will be taxed

20% on 1st £37,400
40% on £112,600
50% on £50k

The personal allowance is removed at £113k but it was only ever worth 40% of £6475 = £2590 anyway. Add the £5000 from the 10% increase in tax of the £50k portion and his tax bill will be £7590 more in 2010/11.

A £200k salary will give someone £10,359pm after tax this year and £9,726pm next year, a reduction of around 6% of his net income.

EddScott

Yes, do you honestly think they had any control of the US economy? You honestly think they saw something the banks didn't when investing in the US stocks with AAA ratings but were full of bad debt? Do you think the population would have really been happy if the government restricted the ability credit to protect the economy?

They are abject idiots don't get me wrong but they are not soley responsible.

Deep Singh

I never said that it was 63% on your entire income. Its the politics of envy

Mitchy260

£50k earnings will give you a take home of £35,810 (28.4%)
£100k earnings will give you a take home of £65,310 (34.7%)
£250k earnings will give you a take home of £153,810 (38.5%)
£500K earnings will give you a take home of £301,310 (39.7%)
£650k earnings will give you a take home of £389,810 (40%)
The Salary Calculator - Take-Home

We may like to whinge that we pay a lot in income tax but in reality we get to keep the vast majority of our paypackets. The average earner on £26k only loses 23.5% through income tax and NI. Not that much to be fair.

We should count ourselves lucky here. There are far higher taxing countries than ours.

I support this 50% for the £150k+

Deep Singh

How about the effect of NI going up and the loss of tax relief on pension?

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

40% was a generalisation, it would need to be whatever it needs to be to bring in taxes as today eg we have various rates in place as wages increase & that generates a tax income of £XBn p/a ... Y% across the board would give the same tax income as we have now. We'd not be bankrupt, we'd just have a fairer system that treats everyone the same. Don't forget that the tax free allowance helps out people earning low salaries.

What's the average salary these days? £20k? If true, my guess is that 80% of the population get paid £50k or less with 20% getting paid more; those on £150k+ will only make up a tiny %age of the population so taxing them at 50% will make **** all difference in reality ... the Govt would be better raising taxes for the majority (same across the board perhaps ) not the minority.

TX.

Edit - I'd remove stealth taxes too so we'd just pay Y% on income tax. Sounding better StiL

stilover

TX think's it's unfair too.

He want's to Tax the poor 40%.

Mitchy260

I agree, it's good to get the claws in and have a whinge. I certainly would if i were in the £100k+ earning category but the only way this '63%' works is between the £100-113k categories.

I suppose if you were earning £100k now and were offered a payrise upto £113k in a more senior position with more hours etc then it probably wouldn't be worth it. However if you are earning between £113-£150k the most you will lose is the PA (40% of £6475) = £2590 or around £215pm.

Will equate to around 3% of their net income so not something to go leaving the country for.

A bit of a pain for the high earners i suppose but we all seen it coming with the black hole of our debt burden. I was half expecting an IR rise back upto 22% but i suppose that will come in budget 2010/11

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Do other countries have our sneaky stealth taxes too? When you add it all up we must be the highest taxed population on earth & maybe even the Universe!

TX.

unclebuck

Instead of a 50p tax rate, which will drive away the entrepreneurs, innovators and businessmen/women this country needs, we should cut the salaries of anyone working in the public sector - including Local Govt, the Quangos and the BBC who is 'earning' more than £150,000pa.

High salaries for Local Authority Chief Executives, NHS Bureaucrats, Executives at various Quangos is always justified on the basis that they need to attract the 'top' people. As a result, there has been massive wage inflation in the public sector over the past decade.

Cut their money. If the incumbents of these positions really are super-qualified 'top' people they will be confident of finding an alternative job in the private sector which will pay them more - and they can put their wonderful talents into something that creates wealth for the country.

Mitchy260

I believe NI is going up by 0.5% for everyone anyway so not confined to high earners. As to pension relief, yes that is a kick in the ***** but has it definitely been confirmed that this is happening?

So higher earners will only be given the standard 20% tax relief on pensions?