I Have THE Answer!!
29 January 2009, 12:30 PM
#1
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I Have THE Answer!!
Rather than pumping ££££££££billions into the Banks and Car Industry ..... why not give every taxpayer an Income Tax 'holiday' of 10 months?
Then, we will see the workers feeling rich and going out to buy Cars, TV's, Funiture ......
No need to reward those on benefits, this way they see no gain - GOOD!
Remove Stamp Duty for the same 10 months .... together with the above this will underpin the housing market.
Cars all sold, Houses sold, people feeling richer and happier .....
Go to the people in November 2009 in an Election and win by a landslide - who will vote for the Tories who will be standing on a platform of re-introducing Income Tax?
Result all round I would say?
Then, we will see the workers feeling rich and going out to buy Cars, TV's, Funiture ......
No need to reward those on benefits, this way they see no gain - GOOD!
Remove Stamp Duty for the same 10 months .... together with the above this will underpin the housing market.
Cars all sold, Houses sold, people feeling richer and happier .....
Go to the people in November 2009 in an Election and win by a landslide - who will vote for the Tories who will be standing on a platform of re-introducing Income Tax?
Result all round I would say?
29 January 2009, 12:39 PM
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I think a better way would be to sell the country to someone like China or India for £1 and a bag of crisps.
They would then make everyone work their ***** off making Nike trainers and plasma TVs, forget all this state support. If you dont like it they can always use a few disposable people on their front lines in Mongolia / Nepal etc.
They would then make everyone work their ***** off making Nike trainers and plasma TVs, forget all this state support. If you dont like it they can always use a few disposable people on their front lines in Mongolia / Nepal etc.
Last edited by billythekid; 29 January 2009 at 12:45 PM.
29 January 2009, 12:47 PM
#7
sadly this would simply make the rich, richer, and the poor, poorer. Plus the government would have absolutely no way of getting the money back.
A tax holiday would be seen as a savings period, not a "we're now better off", and as soon as the holiday ended it would create a dramatic additional negative spiral.
To turn things around, people have got to start spending and borrowing sustainably. Generating a bit of extra cash for 10 months won't do anything except land the country in more debt.
I hate the idea of all these bail outs as much as anyone, but as long as they are accompanied by genuine and real measures to sustainably keep the economy afloat, they may be the only thing that stands a chance of stopping us spiral into financial doom.
And in other news.. hasn't the weather been nice!
A tax holiday would be seen as a savings period, not a "we're now better off", and as soon as the holiday ended it would create a dramatic additional negative spiral.
To turn things around, people have got to start spending and borrowing sustainably. Generating a bit of extra cash for 10 months won't do anything except land the country in more debt.
I hate the idea of all these bail outs as much as anyone, but as long as they are accompanied by genuine and real measures to sustainably keep the economy afloat, they may be the only thing that stands a chance of stopping us spiral into financial doom.
And in other news.. hasn't the weather been nice!
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29 January 2009, 12:50 PM
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with interest ...
... and a lot of people are already in debt so will use the extra cash to pay off that debt, hence not purchasing anything.
... and others will save the money.
If you give the money to firms, as HMG has done, then they must use it to keep going and have no incentive to save the money for a rainy day. Therefore it will have a more direct effect on the economy.
... and a lot of people are already in debt so will use the extra cash to pay off that debt, hence not purchasing anything.
... and others will save the money.
If you give the money to firms, as HMG has done, then they must use it to keep going and have no incentive to save the money for a rainy day. Therefore it will have a more direct effect on the economy.
Last edited by speedking; 29 January 2009 at 12:52 PM.
29 January 2009, 01:02 PM
#11
Bailout industry you save jobs, save jobs, you save on benefit payments and maintain a tax revenue. When things get better the industry is still there ready to take advantage of an improved situation, making more money, thereby paying more to the government in tax and hopefully increasing employment over time thereby reducing benefit payments.
Best to take the hit now and save industry and then claw back the money over time later, rather than ether not spend anything or give it to people they wont get it back from....not that I know nowt of course, but it makes sense to me.
Best to take the hit now and save industry and then claw back the money over time later, rather than ether not spend anything or give it to people they wont get it back from....not that I know nowt of course, but it makes sense to me.
29 January 2009, 01:03 PM
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Would be better to bring back 95-100% mortgages and then people like me, who can afford to buy a house (but don't have £20k for deposit) would start buying again. Obviously the Mortgages would need to be capped at say £100k so people don't take on more than they can afford.
29 January 2009, 01:06 PM
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Here's my plan:
- Government forces the banks to sort their **** out through legislation and keeps some actual control over what they do. Like don't lend money you don't have to people who can't afford to pay it back.
- Stop the media making things worse by talking a downturn into a recession into a depression
- Educate people to take some responsibility for their own financial well-being i.e. don't spend more than you earn and save some money 'cos one day you're going to need that nest egg
- Focus on moral values instead of material ones. If every moron in the country wasn't trying to live some kind of footballers wives lifestyle and judging worth by how many inches your LCD TV has we wouldn't be in this mess.
- Government forces the banks to sort their **** out through legislation and keeps some actual control over what they do. Like don't lend money you don't have to people who can't afford to pay it back.
- Stop the media making things worse by talking a downturn into a recession into a depression
- Educate people to take some responsibility for their own financial well-being i.e. don't spend more than you earn and save some money 'cos one day you're going to need that nest egg
- Focus on moral values instead of material ones. If every moron in the country wasn't trying to live some kind of footballers wives lifestyle and judging worth by how many inches your LCD TV has we wouldn't be in this mess.
29 January 2009, 01:08 PM
#15
No because without money banks go bust, no banks, no economy, what would happen to savings etc if the banks went down? where would business go for money with no banks? more would go to the wall loosing even more jobs.
Buying into banks isn't all lost money, shares in the banks can be sold later, many of the guarantees the government is offering the banks come with a charge and preventing banks going under also saves jobs thereby saves money too.
Buying into banks isn't all lost money, shares in the banks can be sold later, many of the guarantees the government is offering the banks come with a charge and preventing banks going under also saves jobs thereby saves money too.
29 January 2009, 01:08 PM
#16
Here's my plan:
- Government forces the banks to sort their **** out through legislation and keeps some actual control over what they do. Like don't lend money you don't have to people who can't afford to pay it back.
- Stop the media making things worse by talking a downturn into a recession into a depression
- Educate people to take some responsibility for their own financial well-being i.e. don't spend more than you earn and save some money 'cos one day you're going to need that nest egg
- Focus on moral values instead of material ones. If every moron in the country wasn't trying to live some kind of footballers wives lifestyle and judging worth by how many inches your LCD TV has we wouldn't be in this mess.
- Government forces the banks to sort their **** out through legislation and keeps some actual control over what they do. Like don't lend money you don't have to people who can't afford to pay it back.
- Stop the media making things worse by talking a downturn into a recession into a depression
- Educate people to take some responsibility for their own financial well-being i.e. don't spend more than you earn and save some money 'cos one day you're going to need that nest egg
- Focus on moral values instead of material ones. If every moron in the country wasn't trying to live some kind of footballers wives lifestyle and judging worth by how many inches your LCD TV has we wouldn't be in this mess.
all sounds good to me.
29 January 2009, 01:09 PM
#17
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As someone said ,rather than the billions /trillions being pumped into black holes by the government,just give us a million quid each.
On a serious note,this reminds me (bear with it) of the Jurassic Park quote about 'nature will find a way'
No matter what the Government or the Bank of England try and artificially do,the economy and the market will find its level.
You can number crunch all you want.We are dealing with irrational humans and they don't know what we are going to do.Just guess
On a serious note,this reminds me (bear with it) of the Jurassic Park quote about 'nature will find a way'
No matter what the Government or the Bank of England try and artificially do,the economy and the market will find its level.
You can number crunch all you want.We are dealing with irrational humans and they don't know what we are going to do.Just guess
29 January 2009, 01:28 PM
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On a serious note,this reminds me (bear with it) of the Jurassic Park quote about 'nature will find a way'
No matter what the Government or the Bank of England try and artificially do,the economy and the market will find its level.
You can number crunch all you want.We are dealing with irrational humans and they don't know what we are going to do.Just guess
No matter what the Government or the Bank of England try and artificially do,the economy and the market will find its level.
You can number crunch all you want.We are dealing with irrational humans and they don't know what we are going to do.Just guess
The market may find its level on its own, but I'd stock up on shotgun ammo and cat food before allowing it to do so.
29 January 2009, 01:31 PM
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Rather than borrow 10 to 15k for everyone in the country only to give it to the banks and ask them to lend it to us at a nice profit why not cut out the middle man and just give everyone £12k??
People will do one of two things i reckon:
1 spend it (deposit for a house, new car, extension, conservatory or soemthing)
2 bung it in the bank anyway improving the liquidity of the banks.
Of course mad spending might push things a bit the other way but someone should be able to work it out properly!
5t.
29 January 2009, 01:38 PM
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That was basically what i said the other week.
Rather than borrow 10 to 15k for everyone in the country only to give it to the banks and ask them to lend it to us at a nice profit why not cut out the middle man and just give everyone £12k??
People will do one of two things i reckon:
1 spend it (deposit for a house, new car, extension, conservatory or soemthing)
2 bung it in the bank anyway improving the liquidity of the banks.
Of course mad spending might push things a bit the other way but someone should be able to work it out properly!
5t.
Rather than borrow 10 to 15k for everyone in the country only to give it to the banks and ask them to lend it to us at a nice profit why not cut out the middle man and just give everyone £12k??
People will do one of two things i reckon:
1 spend it (deposit for a house, new car, extension, conservatory or soemthing)
2 bung it in the bank anyway improving the liquidity of the banks.
Of course mad spending might push things a bit the other way but someone should be able to work it out properly!
5t.
29 January 2009, 01:44 PM
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Potentially - hence the last bit.
However, it depends on what is being bought. Everyone buys the same thing, prices will rocket, share it about and away you go!
There is always a tipping point. I think in this situation we are not actually talking about putting more money into circulation (one of the main causes of hyperinflation) simply finding a better way to distribute what is there.
As i said, i'm sure some monster brain could actually work out exactly how much it would take to do it and i suspect it would have been a lot cheaper.
5t.
However, it depends on what is being bought. Everyone buys the same thing, prices will rocket, share it about and away you go!
There is always a tipping point. I think in this situation we are not actually talking about putting more money into circulation (one of the main causes of hyperinflation) simply finding a better way to distribute what is there.
As i said, i'm sure some monster brain could actually work out exactly how much it would take to do it and i suspect it would have been a lot cheaper.
5t.
29 January 2009, 03:16 PM
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Is it a bad thing that people pay off their debts? The banks get their money back, reduce their exposure to risk and those in financial trouble get a lifeline. I don't think it's a bad idea.
29 January 2009, 03:17 PM
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It is Rev if it's tax payers money being given out. That means you and I and every other tax payer will be paying for it in the long term.
The whole idea behind it would be to boost the economy through demand. Paying off debt wont do that, it will benefit the individual but not the economy so for the economy a waste of time.
The whole idea behind it would be to boost the economy through demand. Paying off debt wont do that, it will benefit the individual but not the economy so for the economy a waste of time.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 29 January 2009 at 03:18 PM.
29 January 2009, 03:46 PM
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It is Rev if it's tax payers money being given out. That means you and I and every other tax payer will be paying for it in the long term.
The whole idea behind it would be to boost the economy through demand. Paying off debt wont do that, it will benefit the individual but not the economy so for the economy a waste of time.
The whole idea behind it would be to boost the economy through demand. Paying off debt wont do that, it will benefit the individual but not the economy so for the economy a waste of time.
The banks have given out too much money through 'toxic loans' and don't have enough on the balance sheets to cover new loans or funding.
The government bail out is just being used to guarantee that bad debts owed to the banks will be paid. If people paid tose debts off themselves the situation and the balance sheet (cash in versus money out) would improve.
Sure that's how it works.
5t.
29 January 2009, 03:56 PM
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Not quite right. The rev has it. Taxpayers money is already being used to pay off debt.
The banks have given out too much money through 'toxic loans' and don't have enough on the balance sheets to cover new loans or funding.
The government bail out is just being used to guarantee that bad debts owed to the banks will be paid. If people paid tose debts off themselves the situation and the balance sheet (cash in versus money out) would improve.
Sure that's how it works.
5t.
The banks have given out too much money through 'toxic loans' and don't have enough on the balance sheets to cover new loans or funding.
The government bail out is just being used to guarantee that bad debts owed to the banks will be paid. If people paid tose debts off themselves the situation and the balance sheet (cash in versus money out) would improve.
Sure that's how it works.
5t.
Plus those people aren't paying it themselves are they, they are paying it with tax payers money given by the Government who will only need to recoup it back in other ways. You really think the Government could afford to give every adult in the UK £12k just like that?
29 January 2009, 04:06 PM
#28
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You might not have a mortgage, you may have no loans but your 12k that you will be paying for has been given to a bank to pay off someone elses debt.
You personally now have to pay off 12k of debt because the government has given it to a bank that has loaned all of its cash out. They are then asking that same bank to lend you your money back and pay interest on it too.
Sure you wouldn't rather cut out the middle man? you are paying for it anyway?
Liqudity is what is important here. Getting the cash into the economy and putting savings in the banks/paying off debts.
5t.