SJ_Skyline

I suspect it's funded in the wrong places, that's why the clowns are closing down our hospital which serves a town of over 80,000.

Revealed: NHS nurse who earns £100,000 - Times Online

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Badly managed.

OllyK

Top heavy with red tape monitors.

stilover

My best mates wife is a nurse. She has a manager, who has a manager, who has a manager.

The Government gave new contracts to GP/consultants etc years ago. Doctors are now on £100-£250k per annum. Money has been poured in by the Government, only it's not gone on care.

richs2891

Badly managed, too many jobs for the boys, money used to treat non british nationals etc.
People with no common sense managing the money !

Richard

Martin2005

How much money has gone on treating non British nationals?

stilover

Don't know. Please tell us.

Jaybird-UK

They are also spending over £12bn (Yes! Billion!) on a new IT system which has gone over budget and over schedule by a lot.

NHS IT project pulled up by hiatus hernia ? The Register

Just imagine what £12billion could do for medical equipment??

Martin2005

I haven't the foggyist that's my point

stilover

You could pay for an Olympic Games that no one wanted for that much.

stilover

I'm not sure what your point was though. It is true Tax payers money goes on treating Non British nationals. That is a fact.

There won't be any record of how much is spent this way, or if there was the Government wouldn't make it public.

So please explain your question? Preferably without taking the moral high ground as is usual.

Martin2005

Well it's surely a matter of scale isn't it, the poster ,mentioned 2 areas in which the NHS was inefficient, treating non brits was one of them. I pressume therefore that to make such a statement that there should be some idea of how big a problem it is.

I think you are mistaking 'taking the moral high ground' for applying a rational
thought process

mart360

And the reason its all gone wrong?


T
A
R
G
E
T
S



everything has a target that has to be met and of course exceeded

unfortunatly, the people who implemeted the targets didnt know when to stop!!

Mart

richiewong

100k

I'm no where near that but yes there seems to be a lot of chiefs and not enough indians!

And whats even better they are closing down my ward(20 beds) as an inpatient service despite the fact that over the river in Newcastle they shut 31 beds and are struggling to cope

Nevermind as long as we get Foundation status and look good on paper

richs2891

To answer the question, I'm unsure how much money is used to treat non British nationals, but I'm told by three different people who work for the NHS in differing roles (and areas) - that is becoming more of a problem.

Richard

Leslie

Running a business of any kind by setting targets is an admission that those in charge are incapable of proper administration and the target system is a nice easy "yes/no" set-up which can easily be massaged to give the answers that the politicians want to hear!

The target system also encourages workers to make it look as though they are achieving them regardless of applying common sense and skill as well as pride in doing their jobs.

Finally, the bulk of the money going into the NHS is being used to pay the target managers, who have the whip hand, their obscenely large salaries.

Those at the sharp end of the NHS do their best for patients as far as they can bearing in mind their financial restrictions. They deserve all the congratulations for that.

Les

Martin2005

Les

Can you think of any business on the planet that doesn't have targets?

BTW I'm not defending the way the NHS is managed, I agree with you that the money has (largely) been poorly spent, and I am all for route and branch reforms of most of our public services.

However there is nothing inherently wrong with having targets, afterall how are we to know if things are improving unless to measure and track key statistics? It goes wrong when the targets start making people do the expedient thing rather than the right thing.

Martin

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

I'm a Consultant and I don't earn anything like that

The last time I looked there were 570,000 frontline clinical staff and 520,000 admin bods, certainly makes me think !

Shaun

GC8

The 'poor nurse' myth is perpetuated still, isnt it? My girlfriend is a probabtion officer, with two degrees and she earns less than her sister, who is a nurse. Kate does a small amount of overtime and she earns over £5,000pa more than Sarah, whose overtime is all unpaid.....

Deep Singh

If she has two worthwhile degrees why doesn't she get a more highly paid job? And don't tell me its because she wants to work with criminals.

GC8

Whats the point of your post Deep? Admittedly it has more worth than your usual 'how can I spend all of my money' posts, but not much.

Graduate entrants to the probabtion service are required to take a further vocational degree, unless they have a vocational social work degree already.

GC8

...and yes: some people do their jobs because they make a difference, rather than simply to see how much money they can make.

Deep Singh

My point was that you had a little sly dig at nurses for making a living wage. You also implied that your gf should be making more than a nurse because she has two degrees.
Imho nurses do a job that most wouldn't, including wiping up peoples **** and puke, to me thats worth more than two degrees.Especially degrees of dubious worth by the way.

If your gf has followed this line of work because she sees it as a calling then good for her, but don't try and imply that nurses are overpaid whilst they cry wolf

Deep Singh

Yes, like nurses.

c-o-l-e

The PC police mini Hitlers will spank you silly for even asking that, even if you mean Siberian gerbils.

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

FWIW, I'm a Finance Manager in the NHS and there are some fairly sweeping statements on here.

Most managers I know do 45+ hour weeks, when they are paid for 37.5. Quite a few in front line management posts work 6 or 7 day weeks, when they are paid for 5.

A lot of clinicians have their heads in the sand as far as reform is concerned and refuse to move away from current inefficient practices. Most also dont have the time to dedicate to allow them to contribute significantly to re-designing their services. As a result, you need a significant level of dedicated management time to do the work.

Most of the additional funding that labour has thrown in over the years has gone on the vast pay increases for Consultants, GPs and the Agenda For Change process. I know someone who was paid £40k pre AFC and now gets £78k, which was backdated to 2004. Thats a six figure backpayment of your tax funds on one person.

As a result, things haven't improved as much as they should have, given the investment.

GC8

I havent had a sly dig: I seem to have omotted to mention that Kate works far fewer hours than Sarah. Kate deserves every penny that she earns in A&E: my point was that the 'poorly paid nurse' myth was still perpetuated by many and it isnt case.

Deep Singh

I agree with your comment regarding sweeping statements. However, on the whole my experience of managers in the nhs is that they do not have the ability or competence to undertake their duties effectively.

Most could not organise the the proverbial **** up I'm afraid

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Deep........... Medics have done rather well out of the NHS over the last few years.

I'd bow out gracefuly now as the average GMP earns £60k more than me LOL

Shaun

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Rossyboy.. where do you work ?

Shaun