ScooByer Trade

Anyone here got experience of these ?, and can you notice the difference between this type and the conventional amp, when connected to some quality sounding speakers ?.Not bothered about the IPOD dock thingies.
I am just bored with playing cd's every time i switch on the hi-fi, so may go back to record players .


Nathan

ScooByer Trade

To be honest i have looked at these valve amps and i am completly baffled, i havn't a clue which is best, so can someone give me advice on which is best please.I own a pair of B&W P4 floorstanding speakers if that helps.I gather MC is better than MM so they say, and the sound quality is smoother than an amp with a transistor in it but that is all i know.

Nathan.

ScooByer Trade

What is a class A valve amp ?.

RobinSherwood

This is a difficult question to answer with no idea at all of the budget you are thinking of.

My Dad has a system in which some of the componenets have valve stages.

The main front ends are a Pink Triangle Anniversary/SME V/Kiseki turntable and an Audio Research CD3 MK II CD player (this CD player has valves in its output stage). He has on order the Audio Research Reference Phono Amp and a Lyra cartridge.

The amps at the moment are an Audio Research Reference 3 Pre Amp and Chord SPM1200 Power Amp, so the pre amp is valve and the power amp transistor. He wants to upgrade the power amp at some point and will either match the Ref 3 with a valve Audio Research Ref series valve power amp or with a Krell Evolution transistor power amp. There is a school of thought that the combination of both valve and transistor nicely balance each other out.

These amps then drive a set of Apogee Duetta Signatures that have been rebuilt to an upgraded spec with new ribbon panels, upgraded crossovers etc.,..

I can only say it is one of the best hi-fi sytems i have ever heard but then we are talking some high end components here. The valves in the components obviously contribute to the sound this sytem is capable of making.

The ony real downside with this system is it does rip poor quality recordings/broadcasts to shreds but again that is onlt to be expected I suppose.

So if you have the budget some valve equipment is amongst the best in the world but it is a matter of personal taste and some transistor equipment is rated as highly. You will also need a suitable quality front end and need to look after your records, using a professional record cleaning machine on your record collection makes a staggering difference for instance.

CharlesW

Valve amp enthusiasts argue that the sound from a valve amp is warmer and sounds more natural. This is true especially in the mid range. However they tend to be a bit softer, so you miss out on clarity in the very high frequencies, and they tend to give you less slam in the very low frequencies.

So your choice may well depend on what music you like to listen to. If you listen to a lot of rock music, then valve amps are probably not the best choice.

Also their power output tends to be lower, so you will have to choose your speakers carefully. Many of the best speakers are low efficiency designs and require amps with a hefty power output to get the best out of them.

Anyway like everything in the hifi world, you have to make your choice with your ears. Listen to a selection of amps and speakers and buy what sounds best to you.

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

All good info...

I have had a few valve amps over the years,the best being a pair of Jadis JA series monoblocks and more recently i had a chinese Yaqin MC10.

Both at opposite ends of the scale,but totally different to tranny amps.

You do need to listen and see what you think about the sound,you could always get a phono stage for your existing amp,if your happy with it.

Klaatu

In my experience, and with bass guitar, I found old valve amps to have a "warmer" sound. I am sure Lenny Kravits made a whole album based on 70's hardware, including valve amps from that period just for the "sound" they created.

Leslie

I use a valve amp for my amateur radio hobby, most people do because the sound output is much smoother than a transistor amplifier.

Les

Myles

iTrader: (40)

If you google Digital to Analogue Converters (DACs) then it may be a cheaper way to enjoy a warmer, more vinyl sound with your CDs. Cambridge Audio have a new DACMagic II coming out, which has had good reviews. It takes the digital output of the DC player, and instead of putting it through the CDplayer's possibly inferior DAC, it puts it through its own DAC circuitry, designed for a better output. Could be a cheap way to get on the higher end sound. I fancy going down the valve route, but honestly I cant afford it, so a DAC is my next logical step.

NotoriousREV

A mate of mine had a pair of Leak Stereo 20s through ESL electrostatic speakers and a load of components I've no idea about. He used it to play his MP3 collection through and I've honestly never been so blown away by the sound of a stereo. Possibly a bit "bright" for some tastes (mine included) but somehow just "real" sounding if that makes any sense.

Klaatu

It would have to be at least 128bit MP3, maybe 256bit, surely? It's still not a "full" sound like vinyl (Obviously).

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Personally, I see them as a retro fad. They do sound good, and I can see why it has it has such a following. As alot of modern systems can sound too clinical, almost flat. Perfect audio reproduction doesn't necessarily mean the most satisfying sound.

I have an antique GEC Stereogram. It has its own built in 6x9 speakers and a switchable output to run external speakers, which I have tried with various speakers (although maybe not ideal for valve amps).

Unlike modern valve units, which may use transistorised input or preamp circuitry and processing and power regulation circuitry, this old GEC is all valves, transformers, resistors and capacitors, not a drop of silicone in sight.

So what does it sound like? Lovely. Thats the best word for it, internal or external speakers, using an external input (mp3 ), Radio or Phono. Its a warm rich sound, and despite the low power output it still fills the room at quite a satisfying volume level. Bass tones are very natural, as are mid-vocal tones. What it falls down on is stereo imaging and high frequency clarity. But naturally a 50 year old amp isn't going to have a 22+Khz f3 cutoff .

The radio is that sensitive it can pick up german pirate/amature radio stations! Forget PLL digital tuners, this thing doesn't even need an aerial to receive FM broadcasts from France!

ScooByer Trade

Well my budget is around £1,5k maybe more, depends if i find a second hand bargain.Do i need a pre & power amp too with an integrated valve amp, or can i just use a valve type pre amp ?.I already have a record player, so it's money for the rest of the hardware.Can i take these records to be cleaned in some place ?.

ScooByer Trade

The amp i use is an Arcam alpha 9 integrated amp and an alpha 8 player, the sound is great but all of the equipment is more than 10 years old now.So wondering if i can do better with valves or tubes for that matter.Would i need to change the speakers too, seems the alpha 9 is more than a match for the speakers.

ScooByer Trade

I know a bit of a hi-fi head who might have a valve amp, so i could ask him to give me a short demo if he owns one.Or maybe go to the local Superfi shop.

tanyatriangles

iTrader: (2)

If I were you, I'd be contacting high end dealers, and arranging home demos.

Partly because your own ears are the best assessors of any sound, (if they don't like it, it's not good), and partly because even the best sytems sound different in your home to what they do in a properly designed listening room.

Get out there and listen to some, then arrange a home demo of the best.

My system consists of a Cyrus CD8X and PSX-R, feeding into a Cyrus Pre-VS2 and PSX-R, which in turn feeds a pair of Cyrus Smart Power stereo amps used for bi-amping, and again feeding some Cyrus CLS70 speakers.

I bought it 'cos I LIKED the sound

ScooByer Trade

Also does anyone do the same as me, by leaving the cd player & amp on for half an hour or so before use ?.My speakers tend not to damage my ears by doing that.More than likly be affected by overheating now i suppose.

corradoboy

My mate is well into valve amps. When he started he was moving up from an Audiolab 8000 and his first 3 valve amps were from a guy whom hand makes them. They were superb, but he gradually made his way up to running Red Rose (Mark Levinson) amps through Wilson Benesch speakers. He lent me one of the early ones valued at about £1200 and it was lovely to listen to. So mellow and musical making instruments sound real, which suits acoustic and classical but I wouldn't think would be beneficial to electronic, synthetic or heavier rock material. On one night we compared the valve amp with my 20 year old Cyrus II/PSX, a nearly new £1k Musical Fidelity and two other mid-range (iro £1k) integrated amps. What was striking was the very poor performance from the newer amps, with one losing some alarmingly large parts of the low frequency range and both sounding harsh with too much mid-range. The valve amp blew them away, but the big surprise of the night was how well the 20yo Cyrus did, almost matching the valve amp for subtle and mellow reproduction of music, whilst having a clear top end more expected of integrated amps. Unfortunately my mate has now emigrated so it's difficult to get all the details of makes and models he experienced, but I shall be speaking to him by phone next week and will ask him to draft me an email with as much info as possible if you're interested.

pacenote

Not wishing to upset the "save the planet" brigade but I leave the CD, pre-amp and power supplies on most of the time and switch the power amp on a good while before listening to anything. ( not a valve system tho).

ScooByer Trade

That is a great idea, i wonder how much Superfi charge for home demo's.This will sound bad to you guys, at the moment the hi-fi is setup quite wierd really, everything is in a bedroom with an alcove and at the end of the bedroom is the hi-fi which is opposite the bed.May sound ok to some people, speakers are pulled away from the wall so the trebles are not damaged and the left speaker is about a foot above the other, remarkably still no sound loss.Also there is no other place to put this setup and that is annoying because i can't explore the speakers full potential.The speakers are upstairs so is almost defening in the lounge.The room is biggish not clostrophobic.So i guess i am wasting your time asking you about valves amps etc sorry.

GlesgaKiss

Valve amps sound f*cking great up full blast - that's when they are at their best. 'Normal amps don't'.

ScooByer Trade

I know Terzo my speakers distort after half way.

thesyn

Downside of valve amps is the cost of replacing valves which one periodically has to do. I have the same sort of set up as described above. That is a Conrad Johnson pv 11 preamp driving a Uher 200W solid state power amp which smoothes out the sound of both vinyl and cd.
I replaced the valves and it cost nearly £100 using mid range Eastern European manufactured valves. It is very expensive replacing valves in power amps as they are larger carry more power and may depending on use last for less time.

mart360

Interesting, as i would say the opposite.

when i got my tannoy 611's we tried them with solid state ampery stuff, and the sound was quite open and neutral,

partnered with a valve pre / power set up the bass became very slab like and dominated everything, with the treble, although clear dwarfed by the sheer presence of the bass

Mart

ScooByer Trade

Yeah i think my P4's are the same and think they control the bass quite well to a point where they can't handle and start to distort at high volumes.I am talking about slightly after the half way mark and is rediculously loud.As you all know they dominate the house when they are playing music.

corradoboy

Is the distortion definitely originating in your speakers, or is your amp clipping, or as I often find, is it in the recording ? My old Cyrus could play most things at full tilt with no discernible distortion through my Mission 764i's. The odd time I did have cause for concern I found it was the recording. Of course I seldom went to that volume but occasionally the Devil takes control

ScooByer Trade

I think it was the type of music my brother was playing at the time and he always plays at full tilt the moment he switches a hi-fi on the ****.So careful went out the window when his mate arrived.I was suprised he didn't blow the speakers the idiot.

ScooByer Trade

I think i remember he turned the volume up to 3/4 on the dial, maybe not as loud as other speakers but way too loud at 3 in the morning.

corradoboy

Depends on the sensitivity of the speakers. I remember reading a review of a 7W valve amp driving some 97db (IIRC ?) sensitivity Cerwin Vega speakers which resulted in a Police visit, allegedly.

ScooByer Trade

I don't understand what is clipping ?. Also what is IIRC ?.My dad has said that with the windows open he can hear them at the end of the street and is a good distance away (25 - 30 yards or so) .