Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

So what does one do to them?

It seems that no rehab or beating can take the junkie/alky out of someone........

Seen too many ppl mess up their life, and the life of those near them too often.

Anyone have any positive stories on this subject?

Turbohot

Rehabs don't always do enough. To prove that, I have a negative story for you here >

I learnt about an addict who suffered from severe paranoia. Very articulate and intelligent young man of 30, living in a rehab, trying to get his head around living a straight life. But, the rehab's co-operation to him was next to none, the staff had no understanding of how to deal with the resident of that kind of past (he had been into hard core drugs since the age of 16, all the way through his university period too). They were expecting him to have a "get up and go" attitide, where he needed some time to think and reflect. He was so aware of his problem! Having been a regular drug user in past, he had not touched the drugs for 9 weeks through his cleansing period. He was mocked for his learnings, he was stereotyped for his "feeling above everyone" approach. IMO he had reasons to feel like that, as he was more educated than other residents, more clued up and very eager to help himself. Ok, he was flippant and sarcastic. Bit of a spoilt brat due to his comfortable upbringing. But, that was more or less projection of his own failures. It didn't need to become an issue for him to be labeled as a "nasty" villian. Anyway, constant nagging from the Rehab management and other residents was getting to his ****. Even for this concrete realisation that people didn't treat him well there, he was being called paranoid for feeling so. Eventually, he was thrown out of that place. He was in pieces again, and went back to where he was. Great shame.

I worry about people like that, and such instituitional settings are very frustrating. <sighs>

So, there could have been a positive story about this man. But, there isn't. He went back to his drug land, he had no choice.

I have also seen people straightening their lives. It's hard work. The mindset needs to change, the addict needs to be willing to do so. Then only it can be helped. Most drug and alcohol addicts don't think that it is a problem. Obviously, they keep affecting themselves and others around them. Some cases are totally hopeless, some bear hope. Addiction is bad. Sublimation and replacement approaches are good ways to deal with them. But total wipe out of an addiction is very difficult. It keeps coming back to haunt the addicts. One cause, only one little cause, or a tiny excuse could push them back into it. Sometimes a big one. Very difficult indeed.

dpb

Have a friend whoose gfriend has been an alci for 10 years

You cant do it for them - only push them in a direction to seek help

Every so often he withdraws his keys from her to his flat ( she has her own place also) usually after his mother has been down

This is followed by a call a couple of days later from hospital cos someones admitted her after finding her damaged on the pavement - and of course she then gets back into his flat

Im sure their relationship is heaven and hell

But she wont go to AA and one day she wont fall onto the pavement shell fall under a bus and that will be that

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Why would anyone want to BEAT it out of them?

PeteBrant

Lots of people successfully beat Alcoholism/Drug Addiction.

Fairly sure that beating them isn't part of any recognised treatment

The Zohan

Maybe it would help and i would be happy to volunteer my time to help dish out the slaps

Watching a show on ITV catch up last night about shoplifting and some 90% of shoplifting relates to drug or alcohol addiction costing each of us some £ 120.00 a year in price increases. It is not a victimless crime as some of the shop owners had nearly been put out of business due to the losses.

The answer - rehab and mentoring/sheltered housing and the chance of employment and a life - if they want it - when out of prison.
Or
Just lock 'em up until they decide to go into rehab and take it seriously and want to change and make a life for themsleves.

PeteBrant

Well yeah, we all know what a drug free existance it is inside


Of course the best way to tackle Alcoholism/Drug Addiction is to try to remove the elements that drive people down that path in the first place - Where possible.

People fall by the wayside for all sort of reasons.

The Zohan

This is all to do with attitude and wanting to give up/change, it is all to easy to play the victim these days and negate responsibility for your actions!

Drugs in prisons - this is down to attitude and wanting to give up so there lies the problem, no one actually forces you to take them.

"People fall by the wayside" - there is always a choice - if people want help then fine give it to them, if not then lock 'em up away from the rest of society and give them every opportunity to make the change.

you can lead a horse to water...

PeteBrant

In what way?


No, of couse they don't - But I am not sure that the best place for a Drug addict is an environment where drugs are freely available.

Well there obviously isn't always a choice as far as some people feel. You wouldn't "choose" to be an alcoholic. It is a recognised illness.

Of course not all alcholics/drug addicts commit crimes (in as much as they don't steal).

If you are a drug addict, and you have stolen to feed that habit, the best solution is to ge tthem off that drug, not to lick them up where they can feed the addiction that causes th eproblems in the first place.

David Lock

Isn't the success rate for gov't funded rehab programmes just 3% at horrendous cost per person? dl

davegtt

Alcoholics attend meetings, in the mean time Im happy being a drunk so leave me alone

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

That is so true, drug use can stem from a users need to escape from the pain of their life. What can start out as a little recreational escapism can soon escalate into full scale addiction. The hard part is helping them to come to terms with the reasons that drove them there in the first place and show them that they can have a happy life without the need for chemical stimulation. For an addict the prospect of living without their 'prop' can really be very scary. It's not just about the physical addiction but the psychological one too.

The Zohan

You know, you can keep making all the excuses in the world, look where it is getting us.

I am all for giving and much help as possible to get people off of drugs, etc - really i am!

Excuses are just something else to hide behind, face up to what you are and what you need to do to change and then do it, with the right support - if someone realy wants to break the habit and cycles and lifestyle then they will.

If not the lock 'em up until they do. If a recognised ilness then put them away until cured

I do understand that people 'use' for all sorts of reasons and get addicted - they have to want to give up and change and not hide behind excuses.

EddScott

Junkies.... what to do with them?

Score off them probably

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Exactly watch interviews with these people. despite having housing paid for and claiming benefits (can't work and all that) allyou hear is "the governmetn should help" "the council should..." some of these people need to take responsibility for their own actions at some point and not hide behind excuses.

5t.

stilover

I've known 3 Heroin addicts in my life time.

2 were old school friends. Both are now dead

The other was a girl that was a temp at our place for 7 months. I knew something was up (always very pale on a morning) but being very pretty, bright, funny etc, I put it to one side. Anyway after starting a lunchtime relationship with her she confessed to me that she was addicted to Heroin.

She was telling me that at the height of her addiction, she'd received a house and £12k in cash from her Gran's will. She blew the £12k in 1 year. A 2 week holiday in Ibiza and the rest was all on Heroin.

Her family had tried to get her off the stuff. Locking her in her room for weeks, rehab etc, but at the time she didn't want to stop, so as soon as she got out, she went back to see her dealer. Only when I met her was she trying to get off the stuff. Was on methadone (sp).

This was several years ago, and I saw her about a year or so after she'd left working for us (relationship ended to) and unfortunately, she was still on the Heroin. Why? Probably because her dealer lived on the same street, directly opposite her house. Too easy to go and get some.

She admitted to me, that if she didn't stop soon, Heroin would kill her. for all I know, she may well be dead now.

PeteBrant

Man, some people are all heart. Hopefully none of you will ever find yourselves in a position where you feel the only answer is to try and escape through drink and/or drugs.

Still, I suppose it won't matter, cos obviously its a piece of **** to beat addiction if you recognise you are just hiding behind excuses.

The Zohan

Pete, i seem to rememeber you are conected with the legal or perison system somehow - turning native is an expression that springs to mind


Oh get off your high horse, no one says it is easy and most agree with giving full support to help.

as i keep mentioning people have to want to give up and not use excuses. Give them all the help you can

You also seem to conveniently forget that it is the rest of us that suffer due to their addictions as well, thieft, petty crime and drug paraphanalia all issues for the rest of us to deal with and why the hell should we have to keep putting up with it.

PeteBrant

Me? God no.

I am almost certain that most alcoholics don't actually want to be alcoholics. In the same way that people with diabetes, don't really want to have diabetes.

It's an illness, you can want not to have it all you like, but that doesn't mean you can just make it go away.

Same with drug addiction.

The qualification for help should not be "for those that really want it". It should be unconditional. Of course there has to be some effort on the part of the individual, but if you cath a heroin addict stealing from a shop, then locking him up for a few months and then releasing him is not going to change anything.




In what way do we suffer? Regardless of some ITV bollocks programme saying that our prices go up £120 per year due to petty theft (er...why?), most of us, thankfully do not get exposed to petty crime and crime as a result of drug/drink addiction ona regular basis.

I have never, personally, been the victim of a crime due to drugs/drink, and hopefully, nor have many people here.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

maybe get them to run the country, cant be any worse than the current people

mykp

for some rehab works for others they need several bouts of it and others no matter how much you help them they still slump back into addiction.

The house next door to mine is used by a charity for recovering drug addicts and in the 10 years we have lived here we have all types come and go.

All have been through a rehab program and they are all learning to live again.

In the most part they have been great, when we first moved in the two girls who lived there where really nice, but before long they leave and you get new people in there.

we have two women in the flats at the moment and the one who's been there the longest is great, she'd really nice, always chats to us and tries to be a part of the community. Whereas the girl who lives in the other flat is a nightmare.

Some of the things that happen while she's been recovering and when she's relapsed are beyond belief. So far we've had people shouting at all hours, people knocking on our door at 3am demanding drugs, "gimmie a fix", so she's been dealing as well.

We've got up in the morning to find people out of it on the lawn at the front and rear with needles sticking out of there arms or got woken up by here running up and down the main road off her head, butt naked.

We've had the police trying to break down our door, cos they've got the wrong house, police arresting her and her guests at all hours. Police arresting her cos she's been dealing/shop lifting. The ambulance has been here on a number of occasions cos she's self harming or she's had to much heroin!

It is a nightmare some times and she's off in rehab again now.

However when she's off the stuff she's really nice, its honestly like living next to jekyl and hyde!

I do believe everyone has the chance of rehab but if there gonna do the drugs then there going to do them and short of locking them up, how are you going to stop them from doing them. It seems rehab is only part of the answer and continued aftercare and support is needed to help them going back to the habit, but I dont have the answer on how to do this.

stilover

Alot of crime is commited to pay for drugs. That is a known fact. Just because you haven't suffered yourself (yet) doesn't mean it won't happen.

Take drugs out of circulation, cut crime instantly

The Zohan

Never been robbed, burgled, scammed, car broken into, etc or your friends? - lucky you and your friends!

ITV bollox - it is bollox if you do not agree then - very mature and open minded approach.

Try living in an area with high drug usage, prostitution and needles, etc left everywhere. or maybe that is all bollox eh?


Help should not be conditional - however those who do not want it cannot be helped? they should be given all the opportunities and if still a problem and they choose not to commit ( and as you say an illness) then keep them locked up.

Comparing Heroin addiction with Diabeties - priceless!

PeteBrant

Well, no, not anyone that I can think of.
I just don;t see where they get this £120 figure from in terms of price increases.

Police cost sure, but direct price rises? Why?
Er... I think I would rather not! And such areas do exist no doubt, but are they the norm? Not even close.

Heroin addiction is a chronic illness.
Diabetes is a chronic illness.

Locked up for what? and for how long? You can't lock up someone indefinitely for being an alcoholic

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

So true!

I saw an advert on the TV the other day. It said, 'if you drink every day, you're an alcoholic'. I thought, 'thank f*ck for that; I only drink every evening.'

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Paul, I know what you mean, its almost like people look for something to excuse them from any effort, all these claims companies and so many people trying to claim ME or chronic Fatigue syndrome,

Sometimes I think its just a feedback loop of laziness, lack of exercise, eating crap and drinking too much that makes people feel rubbish and try to cheer themselves up by these vices. I think its a lazy and predictable reaction to any given situation, things like losing a job, money worries or being Scottish are not excuses to drink yourself into oblivion and bleat about it, you then become a registered alcoholic and can claim benefits, wtf, no, sort yourself out and get a f*cking job.

I know someone who boozes a lot, they contrive every situation so they can have a pint, ok, most of us like a drink but not every single day, it gets focussed on as something that makes up happy, ok for the first few it does but there is always an opposite effect, like feeling crap and being a miserable grumpy bugger.

I love alcohol to much to spoil it by becoming an alcy !

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Leslie

Violence would be the completely wrong method of course. It is so difficult to escape an addiction that the only reall way is to stop the supply completely. Those imvolved would find it very hard initially but eventually the knowledge that the drug involved is just not available would make it easier to get over it. Most would probably be very grateful at the end of the treatment.

The difficult thing however is to stay off it afterwards when it is possible to obtain it.

Les

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I actually find that offensive. For whatever reason someone chooses to be a heroin addict. No one forces them. If heroin didn't exist would they still be ill? Of course not. The closest thing to an illness that these conditions are is the fact they can be cured.

Diabetes is a genetic issue and is something that can be treated and not cured and your comparison is out and out wrong.

Why not compare it to Mr Glitter? Some people will tell you he has an illness, possibly even an uncureable one and he can't help himself, it isn't his fault, he's ill see? There has to be a point where people take responsibility for their actions, simple as.

5t.

dpb

Kind of depends which type of diabetes ..!