Dedrater

My daughter is looking at buying a car from a trader local to us. He has said he has no mechanical faults but is selling it with no MOT "as it is" I understand that she will have certain rights under the sales of goods act and consumer regulations. Does anyone know where she would stand if the MOT pointed to some major mechanical trouble/damage in relation to the rules and regulations?

Fanks

abbott

would they not slap an MOT on it for an extra 30-40 squid ? if not id be kinda wary

SunnySideUp

Traders get MOT's cheaper than the rest of us, they also have 'friendly' MOT Stations who they use all the time ....... an MOT to a Dealer is nothing.

If he doesn't want to MOT it I would walk away, no I wouldn't - I would RUN AWAY!!!!

Also, in answer to your question, if it's sold without an MOT then it doeasn't matter if the MOT finds faults as the car is clearly being Sold As Seen .... you will have ZERO comeback (only if the car has been mis-represented do you have a claim in this case).

As I said - I would NOT buy it ............ not from a Dealer who won't MOT it!!

robby

I wouldn't have thought the trader could sell a car with no MOT?

If he sells it without then it's unfit for the purpose which it was bought (to use on a road - which has to have a MOT) - if it isn't fit then Trading Standards can get involved

If he won't MOT the car he must know it's going to fail and will be expensive to fix otherwise he'd do it to make it easier to sell

Walk away..............................

Dedrater

A trader can not just sell a car sold as seen though can he?

Edit: I do appreciate the advise about walking away etc i would, but is not me buying the car the young one is and i cant get this through her head, once she wants something etc etc i am just trying to find out her rights should something go wrong.

GC8

No they cant, no matter what they try to tell you.

Luan Pra bang

no decent trader would ever sell with no MOT explain that the car has to be a complete piece of crap and tell us what car it is and what price as I am sure someone on here will be able to source a better one.

SunnySideUp

GC8 - Of course they can!!

The receipt states Car Sold as Seen!! Sold without MOT but Roadworthy.

What he cannot do is sell an UNROADWORTHY car ..... that's completely different to a car without an MOT (which can be perfectly roadworthy)!

robby

This is a good place to ask for advice - Garage services - The Consumer Forums

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

no one can sell a car "sold as seen" when you buy a car, can you see inside of the engine and gear box? no of course not! (this came from a trading standards officer before you try and say otherwise)

why dont you pay for an AA inspection on the car before you commit?

as355f1

i would imagine he is selling the car very cheap as a trade sale yet you still want the benefits of a full retail sale IE Warranty !!!
boils my **** when people do this, why don't you go and pay more money and get the full warranty or inform the dealer that you will be exercising your rights if the car breaks down, somehow i don't think he will sell you the car, so glad i am out of the trade

as355f1

traders are scared to trade sale cars to Joe public due to stupid laws we have now, i remember buying my first car from the rear compound in a ford dealership for £125, they would tell you to **** off now to much hassle to them with people quoting trading standards laws for £200 bangers

paulwrxboro

I trade
Last week i sold a car the bloke wanted it cheep and with only about 4 weeks left on the MOT
i sold him the car with and wrote needing work for MOT, to cover my ***

scoobynutta555

Wrong I'm afraid. In fact a trader using sold as seen is a criminal act.

"Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) a customer may be entitled to a refund or a free repair if the motor vehicle is faulty, not of satisfactory quality or not fit for its purpose. A customer may also be entitled to a refund or compensation if the vehicle is not as described or where the seller had no legal right to sell it. These rights cannot be taken away and any attempt by a trader to limit his liability under the Act by reference to an exclusion clause or similar statement will be void and therefore unenforceable. Furthermore, under the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976 it is a criminal offence to use such a statement. For example statements such as:

"No Warranty Given or Implied"

“Sold as Seen”

“Sold for Spares or Repair” (This may be used only in limited circumstances and not for the sale of vehicles intended for use on the road)

are all void and therefore illegal."

Trading Standards - Advice - Advice to the motor trade regarding the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements)

scoobynutta555

And I'd go further and say a car without an MOT is not roadworthy.

paulwrxboro

To be honest if the car is cheap take it and get it fixed with the money you save
if not, pay a decent price and get one with a full mot

as355f1

so if a trader sells a £200 banger with short mot on you think its ok to go back and ask for your money back or have it repaired by the dealer ? yes i know its legal but morally its just wrong IMHO its a stupid law as people take advantage of it, if your paying 3k for a car with full mot and warranty then fair enough but for a banger with hardly no mot ???, its a **** take, as i said so pleased i am not in the trade anymore.

scoobynutta555

Not a **** take at all, it's to protect the consumer against unscrupulous traders. The same type of trader that would sell a £200 banger with short MOT.

PetesDad

Blatantly untrue I'm afraid.

Lets assume that you have a car 'laid up' over winter, SORN'd ... in your garage.

Lets assume that it is a 33 month old car when you have 'stored' it.

Spring awakens your desire to take the car out on the road again, but, now it is 37 months old ....... you would claim that the car has somehow become unroadworthy whilst stored?

The car is taken to the MOT station and passes ...... the car was clearly roadworthy WITHOUT an MOT.

Therefore a car CAN be roadworthy without an MOT as can a car with an MOT be unroadworthy!! The two are not linked in any way except for the moment the car is actually given an MOT - other than that, bets are off whether it's roadworthy or not!

scoobynutta555

Thanks for the sermon, but in what context does this apply to a trader selling a car without an MOT.

In any case a car without an MOT is not legal to be driven on the road and is therefore unroadworthy in the eyes of the law. One exception that I know of is driving the car direct to the MOT station for a pre-booked test.

apples24

iTrader: (1)

if you cant find anyone who knows cars to look at it for you walk away. your post says it all, you want to buy a car as is no mot for obv a good price then asking if you can take him to the cleaners if its no good.

not fair

cheap cars excist you just have to take a chance, he could well be hiding something, thats all part of the risk, but he could just be trading on several that just need to go asap, it happens all the time

i feel the fact your asking this you should be looking for one on the road ready to go, either that or try and ask him to put a ticket on it offer 150 ontop or similar play it by ear use gut instinct

The Zohan

The car is worth more money with an MOT, certianly more than the cost of the MOTY.

There will be a good reason behind this car not having one - walk away!

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

There seems to be a bit of confusion about the sales of goods act here.

If a dealer sells a car on a trade basis, then it is a BUSINESS TO BUSINESS transaction - a trade sale basically means the dealer selling to someone else in the motor trade, the car is cheaper, but its sold as seen, and there is no comeback if faults are discovered as the buyer, being in the trade, should either check for them, or accepts that the car is cheap, so will do any repairs themselves.

Business to Business sales are NOT the same as business to public sales - they arent covered by the sales of goods act in the same way, and it is perfectly legal and normal to mark the invoice as 'trade sale - sold as seen'.

Unless the OP's daughter is in the motor trade, or knows enough about cars to fix anything that could potentially be wrong, then she should pay more and get a car from a dealer with MOT, warranty etc.., as a normal sale to a consumer this WOULD be covered by the SOGA.

From the sound of it, the dealer is selling the car as a trade sale, which is why it is cheaper, wont have an MOT and he wants to mark the invoice sold as seen. He should however also mark the invoice as a trade sale and make this clear to the buyer that this is how it is being sold.

PetesDad

You are welcome to the sermon, I'm afraid you are about to receive another

Your words were, "And I'd go further and say a car without an MOT is not roadworthy" ...... you took the thread out of context, I was simply replying to this.

You are correct to say that a car is not legal to be driven on the roads without an MOT, save for being driven to an MOT station for a 'pre-booked' MOT.

Where you seem to be misled is that the charge of driving without an MOT is just that - it is NOT, in the eyes of the law, a charge of operating an unroadworthy vehicle ...... as I proved beyond all doubt above, a vehicle without an MOT can be perfectly roadworthy (could even be more roadworthy, in fact, than a car with 2 days remaining on its MOT!!!)

The Zohan

Of course, you could pass an mot in the morning and then change all 4 tyres for bald tyres in the afternoon if you so wish - the car will have an MOT of the remaining. It will however be unroadworthy in the eyes of the law, should they stop it.

The MOT is there to ensure that cars over 3 years old have a annual check of their roadworthiness - fair enough.

However, a car without an MOT, no matter how good a condition is still unroadworthy in the eyes of the law.

MOT (test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

There is no reason for a trader to sell a car without one as a car has a higher value with an MOT.

Driving a car on public roads without an MOT would be to drive the car in an unroadworthy condition - without an MOT.

There are plenty of cars out there which have MOT's and are unroadworthy - the idea of the MOT is to prevent this or spot the cars in an unroadworthy state (by testing them against a set of guidelines and benchmarks) point out the faults so that they can be rectified and then the car deemed roadworthy for another year (or scrapped if uneconomic to repair/bring up to a pass level).. The owner who should still perform basic checks to tyres, etc on a regular basis.

apples24

iTrader: (1)

even trade sale doesnt work, the dealer has to cross across the receipt SOLD FOR SCRAP.


WHY DO YOU THINK MOST CARS STAY INBETWEEN TRADERS OR THROWN DOWN THE BLOCK.

JOE PUBLIC RUINING IT FOR THEMSELFS

PetesDad

"Trading Standards - Unroadworthy Vehicles



This page gives information about the Road Traffic Act 1988. It is an offence to supply an unroadworthy vehicle.


WHO DOES THE ACT AFFECT?
Any person who supplies a motor vehicle, whether privately or in the course of their business.

'Supply' includes selling, displaying for sale and hiring.

This covers anyone who repairs and sells cars for a hobby and includes all cars whether it is from garages, through auctions or from home.

If a vehicle is unroadworthy, the sale is illegal, whether it takes place at a private house, a garage or at a motor auction


WHAT IS UNROADWORTHY?

A vehicle is unroadworthy if:
its brakes, steering, tyres, construction or equipment do not meet statutory standards; or

- its use on the road would present a danger of injury to any person; or

- it is dangerous due to structural corrosion.


HOW TO CHECK WHETHER A VEHICLE IS UNROADWORTHY

If you have any doubts about whether a vehicle is roadworthy, it must be examined by a competent person.

Do not offer the vehicle for sale until you are sure it is roadworthy.

Remember, having a current MOT certificate does not prove a vehicle is roadworthy.


WHEN CAN AN UNROADWORTHY VEHICLE BE SUPPLIED?

Anyone in a trade or business who supplies an unroadworthy vehicle must ensure that all reasonable steps were taken to inform any prospective buyer that the vehicle must not be used on the road.

This should include at least the following:

Make it clear in advertisements that the vehicle is unroadworthy and is being sold for spare parts or repairs.

Display the vehicle separately and mark it 'unroadworthy'.

Ask the buyer to sign an acknowledgement that the car is unroadworthy and itemise all known faults and is being purchased for 'spares or repairs'.

Write 'Unroadworthy - sold for spares or repairs - not for use on the road' across the sales invoice.

Give the buyer a copy of each of these documents.

Do not hand over any paperwork which suggests that the vehicle is roadworthy, e.g. current MOT certificate or current tax disc.

Make sure that the buyer does not drive away an unroadworthy vehicle. It should be collected or delivered, on a trailer.

Any other person who supplies an unroadworthy vehicle should follow the above guidelines as far as possible"

Please note:-

"Remember, having a current MOT certificate does not prove a vehicle is roadworthy"

Also:-

The offence of having no MOT is just that, it is NOT an offence of driving an unroadworthy vehicle ... although the vehicle may also be unroadworthy - the two offences are completely seperate.

Indeed, if a vehicle is stopped by the police and it transpires that it has no current MOT - if that vehicle immediately has an MOT carried out and passes, it is considered to have been illegal whilst being driven without a certificate - but it will be clear that the vehicle was able to pass a MOT Inspection. The charge of no MOT could be brought by the Courts, but not one of unroadworthiness.

as355f1

still the fact stands that its people like this that has fooked people like me buying cheap trade ins from dealers as they are to scared in case of come back from trading standards and the odd garage that do are branded as dodgy back street dealers, you just can't win with some people !

GC8

Not really, if you are a trader then consumer law doesnt affect you; you can still buy on trade terms.

GC8

Rubbish.