kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

On itv now is exactly what has been going on at our workplace for the last couple of years I posted a year or so ago about how English quality control staff were being made redundant and replaced with minimum wage Polish staff.

Utter ferking joke, I know many lads that I went to school with who are desperate for job s after being laid off in January by cornwall's largest employer imerys. Absolutely nothing going atm .

I guess they are free to go to Poland to earn £300 a month

hrness

love the ad for polish workers at the bottom of this lmao

little-ginge

we caught this programme... i don't normally comment on things like this, but this really got my gander up.

the comment along the lines of 'if the british can't get jobs in Britain because of Polish migrant workers taking them, the Brits are quite welcome to leave the country they have contributed to, and seek work abroad...!!''

How dare they? We work and give back to this country in taxes etc, our forefathers fought 2 world wars and built this countrys foundations - and we are just handing it to them on a bloody plate.

Out of 1000 workers for that sports company shown, it was estimated 75-80% are of Polski origin. British companies are expecting UK employees to train the migrants, and then they sack the Brits and keep the Polish instead - to use the old scale of 'last ones in, first ones out' is apparently discrimination according to some companies.. what about the discrimination to our nationals??

Its absolutely disgusting. It's about bloody time we took a stand in this country before the growing problem turns into a crisis.

bugeyeandy

Happened to my Dad , he worked for Ebuyer trained loads of poles and then had to leave when the company took the **** and asked him to do loads of extra stuff that wasn't part of his job.
He doesn't have a bad word to say about the poles but most of them he knew have gone back to Poland - most aren't here to contribute or live they just want to make a few quid so they can set themselves up back home. Can't really see how this helps the uk economy in the long term.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

oh i dunno, pete brant will be along soon to spin some more bullsh1t from his "1001 labour lies" book of prosperity.

cster

My one makes me 35k profit a year - after tax

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Pay negotiations are no the cards atm . And the bosses have said that if we are not prepared to do the job for the current wage there are plenty me foreign workers who will . Our union does sod all either as the majority of their clients are polish here

PeteBrant

I don;t have one of those - I just don't spout regularly from the "Daily Mail starter book on politics"

Much as I wouldn't trust ITV to accuratley report the football scores, let alone a serious bit of investigative journalism.. If one worker, regardless of origin, is being sacked, and replaced by another to do the same job, purely on the basis of wage, then that is obviously wrong.

If I was made redundant or sacked on that basis I would be straight to a tribunal.

The Zohan

Was an eye opener for sure.

Jon Snow is a pretty good journo and i trust him.

Pete, really you should watch it before you comment on it

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Disgusting it may be, but in my experience the average Pole is harder working than the average Brit and if I ran a company where I had the opportunity to employ either I would be sorely tempted to go for the cheaper harder working option as it is hard to ignore it as regards the bottom line.

Sorry, but while there is some truth in the 'they're taking our jobs' line there are also some other reaosns that we don't like to face up to and one of them is that a lot of native Brits are bloody lazy.

Sure there are valid points to all sides of the argument, but as long as we have the EU set up the way it is this is what is going to happen and it isn't as simple as saying 'It's not fair' as in many cases it is totally fair.

davegtt

Pete hasnt commented on it and what he has briefly mentioned is siding with your argument.

Everyone seems to have it in for him because he is capable of making a sensible debate against a mob who want to kill everyone else

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Happened to my lad, and five of his mates, TWICE!

And because he was a trainee and it was written into his "contract" that he could be finished at any time, he couldn't go to a tribunal, he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

He ended up having to travel 35 miles round trip each day to work for minimum wage, with his college day unpaid, so as to complete his training.

To say he was broke by the end of it, would be an understatement

Quite how this helps our kids to get off benefits and into work is beyond me

FOUR of the six lads affected never got work in the same line, or didn't have transport to travel out of town, so wasted up to three and a half years training

Alcazar

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

can i ask what line of work your experience comes from?

i ask because in my experience of warehouse working, unfortunatley the above is simply not true. take my current employers for instance, staff force of around 600 in scunny depot, and approx 60-70% are now polish. its a damn hard job to do and hit targets (as my "bombshell" thread in nsr shows the effects), and for some reason we get some proper idiots coming across from europe. but they still get a job, 3 month probation, no english skills, refusal to co-interact with fellow workers (which would be good for morale).

the point im getting at is most come, do their three months knowing damn well they cant hit targets, and when three months is up, they have enough saved/sent home to poland etc., to go to another job on half the wages. best example being my partner. shes on basic minimum wage, and the amount of people i recognise from my place going down the road 500 yards to toss it off there is unbelieveable.

long winded i know, but in this line of work (which to be honest most polish workers come and do - ie unskilled labour), i simply refuse to believe what you have said is the case.

davegtt

She work in a knocking shop by any chance?

I tend to agree with f1_fan. In my experience every Pole Ive met are very hard working, get on really well with their jobs and have no problems what so ever integrating with any other national around them. Sometimes I look around and think its the English with the problem of integrating.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

can i ask what line of work youve seen this to be the case. i only ask as i know most on here are successful/semis successful and on decent earnings.

davegtt

TBH Ive not met one Polish guy in my line of work but know alot of people in the Polish community who do the following and are all good workers, I know people who work with them too so know it to be the case.

Bar Work
Factory work (food packaging, cardboard manufacturing and fork lift driving to name but 5 people I know in this line)
Hotel industry
Electricians mate (running cables etc).

Luan Pra bang

In my experience Poles work harder and are much more comitted to their jobs. English staff are lazy have too many days off and always think that they are entitled to a massive salary irrespective of thier skills. Poles get on with the job English spend all day complaining about their jobs and threatening to sue for breach of their Human rights if you make them come to work on time.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

i suppose mainly as i have worked with a couple thousand in the last 3-4 years then, most of which have left for easier work, ive had a little more first hand experience

i suppose i should pull my finger out now and be a successful ***** waver

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

sorry totally disagree with you. admit many uk workers are lazy etc, but just the same if not more polish workers are the same. why? i think because regardless of what they earn, they are still better off than back home. im not for one minute suggesting all polish workers are like this, but again in my experience a higher percentage over uk workers are.

the thing that really gets my goat up is when the eu workers use the language barrier as an excuse too. sorry but basic english skills should be paramount before acceptance into a job/role/position etc.

davegtt

Well we all have differing experiences at some point or another. Im just picking 5 Polish friends at random who I know who are definately hard workers and a good friends. I cant speak for all of them and I think its short sighted for you to aswell. You have to remember these couple of thousand Poles that youve worked with have all probably looked at you and the other English working there and thought you lot were ignorant and had no interest in talking to them. (Now I know youre gonna come back to me and say youve tried etc etc and I cant argue whether you have or havent but I know Ive not met one bad egg from Poland yet.

In my experience they treat you how theyre treated.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

fair enough, we're not gonna agree, so il leave it at that.

one last point il make though. in your experience of meeting/working with said polish workers, has that been in a situation where you have been say "at the bottom of the barrel" like myself, ie warehouse work, or in a semi skilled/skilled qualified role? also has it been the case where you have been the boss/manager/team leader, or just another member of staff working along side? i ask because im pretty sure your not "bottom of the barrel" fodder like myself, something which i live with and dont seek sympathy for, beofre you comment on the "vote".

Luan Pra bang

Taking into account that I employ people and how well they work is what determines wether I can pay my mortgage or not I can promise you that taken as an average Polish are much much harder working than English people. I think you suffer from a lack of objectivity in that in every warehouse environment the English always put down the Polish becusae of fear, ignorance and a basic understaning that the Polish may well steal their jobs.
Polish workers if treated well and respected will work for a business like it was their own. English treat a business they work for like something to be screwed for every penny they can get out of it then discarded when it has no more use.

davegtt

No, as I explained earlier Ive not directly worked with a Pole in my line of work, I have many friends who do, my house mate is Polish, he used to be the bar man in my local and seen him working. All the friends I work with I know to be hard working, Ive drank with Poles in my local who I tried to convince to stay out and have a few beers and they wouldnt even have one because they had work at 6am in the morning, came across alot more sensible than pretty much every English man I know who would have had a beer with us all.

Back to your point about being "bottom of the barrel". I know exactly what you are saying, Ive followed your previous threads explaining your situation. Although when you are generally down and out you feel that everybody is against you. Ive been lucky managing to keep my job. Approx 2 years ago I was going through what was one of the hardest times in my life, if Im honest Im still not dragged out of the fcuked up place and do feel that a massive part of my life is effected by it. I know how if feels to think that people or just life in general is against you sometimes.

As a side note, I hope things pick up for you

PeteBrant

Without wishing to sound condescending, when it comes to unskilled labour,and such like, invariably it is the cheapest labour that will get the job.

Obviously if you don't put in the wffort, that's going to get noticed, but all other things being equal, it is money that will define who gets the job.

If you advertise at a low enough rate, then by default you are only going to attract workers willing to work for that rate.

However, thi si quite different from actively replacing someone that already has a position with a cheaper person purely for that reason. In that case I think these people should seek legal advice.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

it has nothing to do with objectivity. i know if i work hard (which i do - always try my best), i dont have any fear of loosing my job to another worker, whether they be polish or any other nation.

again, i re-itterate my point, i work with them and dont manage them which im guessing is your position. i can only speak from my experiences such as yourself, but in the environment i work in, i find the polish workers use the company as a stop gap until they find a cushty number working for minimum wage.

GC8WRX

Thats because most companies treat us like that!

I worked for one of the biggest pharmaceutical suppliers in the world for 3 years, during that time, the first 12 months were great, then the threats of moving production to china started to circulate, then the targets were ramped up dramatically so there was enough backstock to cover the move, then we had to have chinese people "observing" us while we worked, then we were "offered" a redundancy package, and told to come back as temporary workers on half the wage cos production didnt cease, it was "scaled down" till last quarter 2009.

So a massive multinational company fcuked its workers off on 20k+ a year (even the cleaners were on 16k), then asked them to come back to finish things off before the move as "temporary" agency staff on 14k, and expect things to work out ok? I DONT THINK SO!

I know people who deliberatley fcuked up batches worth 250k, just to get back at the company. None of the original employees want to go back, so guess who filled all the temp positions, thats right POLISH.

So the company has untrained, non english speaking poles, who couldnt follow SOP'S(standard operating proceedures) if they tried, making antibiotics that people will inject into their bodies!

Quality assurance has rejected more than half the batches made after the "switch" cos there were issues with deviance and other stuff!

The company is ASTRA ZENECA, and they deserve all they get, i hope they go under cos ive sold all my shares!

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

similar situation with me. since we have had this influx of polish workers...

• assignment targets have risen from 75% to 85%
• the one way system has been introduced
• order times have been slashed
• overtime notice has been reduced from 24hrs to 4 fcukin hrs
• staff turnover has risen by about 250-300% p/a

the main reason there are so many olish workers here is because nobody in scun.thorpe wants to work for these men, because they know how unfair it is. its a good wage for the job, but it then traps you as knowhere else pays the type of money.

all these factors above are even deterring the poles now. they come over cant handle it, do three months probabtion and **** off. there are apparently websites in poland warning against prospective employers coming to the company - so now they are moving onto slovakia, hungary and romainia.

trust me if the poles are hard workers and even they cant stand the place....

The Zohan

Let me make it clear. I suggested Pete watch the programme before comenting on it - because it raises some interesting issues and to fully understand the context and content.

I for one do not have it in for Pete and very much respect that he often plays Devils advocate and takes a lot of cr@p for pointing out the other side of the argument, wether he belives it or not he still takes time and effort to do this.

For a leftie, Guardian reading, beardy PC plonker he is not a bad chap I understand that Pete is in a long term relationship with Martin 2005, they own two siamese cats and go 'tiquing at the weekends. Good on 'em. Live and let live thats what i say - uinless they are immigrants of course

davegtt

I wasnt pointing the finger at you about being in the clan of people wanting to kill him Sorry if it came across that way. Just many threads with certain people in them who have no decent input and their only reply is oh Pete will be along soon. Im sure the guy can fight his own battles too, it was just an observation

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Shares that you were given right? Anyhow I find it hard to believe a company like AstraZen would employ untrained, non English speaking personell. I presume it still shares the site with Syngenta and from my experience both companies looked after the staff impeccably. Infact even in the face of extreme uncertainty the company did what it could to help staff.