alcazar

iTrader: (2)

When the Euro first came into being, we refused to enter, and we got €1.65 for our £1.

Now we are getting €1.28. The £ holds it's value against ALL other curencies, even gains against some, but is surely and steadily falling against the €.

So far, then, the cost of € has risen from £0.61 to £0.78, thus 17p MORE to buy each Euro, or a loss to us of 28%.

If this continues, within another 5 years, the £ will be on parity with the €, and there'll be NO real reason not to go in.

Is this what the government are hoping?

And why, when we are a net importer, is it SO important to get the £ as low as possible to make EXPORTS cheap to sell? Shouldn't we be keeping the £ HIGH so as to make imports cheap?

Alcazar

EddScott

Yes.

Probably because exports is money coming in, imports is money coming out.

Brendan Hughes

I thought Gordon was seriously anti-Euro, so I'm going to go with coincidence rather than a 10-year conspiracy theory. In which case he must be really grinding his teeth at those figures.

hrness

we will all be europeans at some very near time.
gordon has seen to that, and his compadre, saw to the demise of everything british.
i wonder what the extremists in this country think about, probably that they now have a bigger target to aim for.

ScoTTyB

Big deal. Why anyone gets worked up about the euro is beyond me. Just adopt it ffs, we'll end up with it anyway.

Leslie

Bit of a short sighted attitude. I personally do not want to hand my country over to the Eu lock stock and barrel. How can you trust an organisation which has been unable to gets its accounts passed by the auditors for 13 years? Where did all those billions of Euros go I wonder! I would much prefer that we set our own laws, and run our own country in the way that we want thank you!

Les

PeteBrant

I think it's incredibly arrogant to think that the UK can dictate the exchange rate of the Euro to the pound.

We aren't going to join at anypoint in the near to medium future - We may well do in the long term.

Personally I am against it - Not because o fany sentimental attachment to the pound, but because I do not beleive you can set a single interest rate and inflation target across the whole of europe.

I would argue for different interest rate across individual countries, let alone per nation.

r32

The buying power of the two are still around what they were when the Euro was introduced

SJ_Skyline

Every time I think about this it reminds me of Sir Humprey:

"Well, it's clear that the committee has agreed that your new policy is a really excellent plan but in view of some of the doubts being expressed, may I propose that I recall that after careful consideration, the considered view of the committee was that while they considered that the proposal met with broad approval in principle, that some of the principles were sufficiently fundamental in principle and some of the considerations so complex and finely balanced in practice, that, in principle, it was proposed that the sensible and prudent practice would be to submit the proposal for more detailed consideration, laying stress on the essential continuity of the new proposal with existing principles, and the principle of the principle arguments which the proposal proposes and propounds for their approval, in principle."

David_Dickson

Talking to the locals here in France, they are all very disillusioned with the euro. Despite governmental promises that no-one would be worse off under the euro, prices went up significantly.

Personally, I have always thought that uk government planned to wait till the pound weakened enough untill it was at a 1:1 exchange rate with the euro, then its just a "rebranding" excercise to tie us into it.

Brendan Hughes

I don't buy that. Firstly, there was supposed to be governmental controls that the private sector wouldn't use confusion over the currency change to round up prices, eg a product that cost €2.82 wouldn't just be rounded up to €2.99 to make it look like a "normal" price. It's true that some retailers were punished for this and others got away with it, but for me that's the retailers to blame more than the government, it's the retailers who've found a way to make a quick immoral and illegal killing. Secondly, we are all aware of what has happened to the world prices of oil and wheat over the same period, which frankly means that ALL prices are going to rise, it has bugger all to do with the currency.

Euro yes, price rises yes. Price rises caused by the change to the euro, not really.

David_Dickson

I must have imagined it then.

PeteBrant

To be fair, Brendan, whether it was the retailers to blame for the odd price rise is irrelvant - In the minds of the public, it is the Government to blame. They made the decision to go to the Euro, they made assurances that people wouldn't be out of pocket. so it is up to the government to ensure that retailers don't try an capitalise, and catch and punish those that do.

I agree of course with the oil and wheat points.

Its the centralised interest rate i just cannot see the logic of, What is good for one countries economy could be catastrophic for another.

Brendan Hughes

You know Pete, I don't think you're really educating me with that statement

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

The sooner you lot get of your we're better than you horse and accept the euro the better it will be for everyone!!!!

does it not **** you off paying to change money when you go abroad and come back again??? it certainly does me !!

if a country the size of The United States of America can use one currency then why can't the United States of Europe??

I am glad the pound is getting weaker it means I get more for my money lets hope it continues!!!

BMWhere?

My argument from the start was that the pound will only eventually weaken against the Euro and the UK will have now control of the currency if its forced to join with a weak £. If we had been in from the start, we would have a lot of political control of the currency and been able to shape it to best suit the needs of the UK! As it is, the Euro is largely shaped to fit France and Germany and will ultimately cost the UK big time when we finally have to join!

There really has never been a question of IF we join, only WHEN! As with anything, you snooze, you loose!

PeteBrant

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

BMWhere: My point exactly, although more succinctly put than I did

Brendan: I too have not seen evidence of price rises in France, or other parts of the Euro-zone directly attributable to the introduction of the Euro.

Indeed, the French government went out of it's way to STOP anyone profiting from it's introduction. If only the UK government had done the same over decimalisation in 1971, perhaps the UK public wouldn't have this utter distrust of a currency change. Certainly, old people cited that very reason for NOT wanting the Euro.

Depending on who you talk to, the French themselves either blame price rises on the introduction of the Euro, or, like we do, on world price rises, raw materials etc. It tends to be the French "Sun Readers" that blame it on the Euro.

Alcazar

Brendan Hughes

alcazar - You agree with me on EU-related matters, I'm going for a lie down

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Why is that then? I have houses in France AND the UK so I'm a Europhile...............I think

Alcazar

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Yet

Leslie

Changing our currency to the Euro is very significant since it is a very big loss of our sovereignty. It is worth remembering that if we become federated to the Eu, we will have lost control of our own country and with that our lives and we wiil also lose most of our democratic rights. At the moment we still have a powerful vote since we can dictate our own government. That would be all lost since our own administration would have to do exactly as dictated by the Eu. Suits them of course since they have the ultimate excuse as they so often use at the moment.

Nothing wrong with a true trading partnership as we were initially led to believe joining the EEC would be. We all know now of course that it was all a big lie and that is underlined by the fact that we are not even allowed to have the referendum on the Eu constitution that we were so faithfully promised even if it is presented as a treaty. Yet another barefaced lie of course.

I personally am not keen to be governed by a bunch of appointed creeps who like this lot we have at the moment, are engineering it all to their own advantage with no regard for the people. As for the Eu parliament-that is just a sham anyway!

Les

PeteBrant

Thing is, Les, in what way have, say the French, or Germans lost any sovereign power by joining the Euro?

Why does it automatically mean that Britain will?

I am against the Euro, but for economic reasons, not for perceived issues of sovereignty - Don't get me wrong, I would never support any measure that meant the end of Britian as an entity, but I don't think joining the Euro threatens that.

bugeyeandy

Doesn't bother me one jot changing money, hardly a reason to hand over our currency on a plate. The US is as you correctly put it "a country" - Europe is not , it's a collection of countries.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

But the US was also a collection of countries until the all joined together to form America in the 1800s.

But as PeteBrant said why should you lose your sovereignty by adopting the euro, it is still money just a different colour.

Leslie

You are better placed than I am to talk about France and Germany, have not been over there for a long time, but my friends who visit France say that they just ignore anything that they don't like about the Eu and do their own thing. Our own creeping politicians do the opposite of course hiding behind the Eu as an excuse.

I do not want to see this country disappear into an amorphous bunch of ex countries, I want us to maintain our own democracy even though it is not so evident at the moment-until we get an election of course. If we still have such things by then. I see the Eu commissioners etc as being an odd crowd who have inexplicably "lost" billions of Euros and who's accounts have not been accepted by the auditors for 12 years or so. How can such a situation be allowed to continue? Do they appear to be trustworthy or competent? Do you support turning our country over to them? What kind of a voice would we have in the Eu when we only have a small percentage of the MEP's in the Eu Parliament. And look at how they make the most of their expenses too!

As imperfect as our own method of government of this country may seem to be, I would rather stick with that since at least we have some kind of power with our vote.


Les

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I don't agree that we'd lose sovereignty if we join, any more than we now have.

That just seems to be Europhobe scare tactics. So what if the queen's not on the paper money? Her likeness will be on coins minted here.

And as for not being able to make decisions, that's not true either. You hit the nail on the head: the other EC countries look at any new laws and ask, "Does that law benifit this country? Does that law benifit our citzens?" if the answer to neither is yes, then they ignore it.

OUR mob enforce EVERY little law to the hilt, unless it doesn't benifit THEM, the government, like the Idris Francis thing.

You put your finger on the problem here, Les:

The liars and those we need to beware of aren't Europe, they are are own devious lying Labour loonies!

Alcazar

scoobynutta555

Haven't the time for a full reply. However, a few quick pointers.

Many of our new laws are from Europe. We are governed by a bunch of unappointed (you mean unappointed instead of appointed?) creeps at the moment. Look at the House of Lords, the Monarchy, any QUANGO you care to look into. Even Gordon brown wasn't properly elected by the people to 'rule' the country.