exvaux

iTrader: (1)

hi just after a quick bit of advice this morning my mum was pulled over in her car by the police who claimed she was on the phone while driving,she denied it.They said they saw her holding a silver object at her right ear,her phone was in the glove box of the car and her phone is black although her watch is silver.they asked her if she would accept the fixed penalty she said no as she had done nothing wrong so they are reffering the matter to the pf,one of them was ok the other was a bit of an a**e who suggested she take the fine as its her word against theirs in court and she wouldnt have a chance.She offered them the phone to see if any calls had been made,they declined as "they dont have to,they just need to see you" she has called her mobile operator who said they can only itemise whats made from the phone not recieved on it.Basically does she have a chance with it being just on word with no other evidence as she is a stubborn sod and will take them all the way anyway

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

My advice? Take the points etc. The police WILL lie in court, I have experience of this, as have a few mates. The mags will believe them and your mum will get worse.

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure, but feel free for you and your mum to join my "trust all coppers as far as you could chuck a carload" club

Alcazar

OllyK

I'd ask a solicitor or one Peipoo. It sounds, from what you've said, that she ought to be able to make a reasonable case, but what's reasonable to you and I, isn't necessarily to a magistrate who seem to go hard on motorists regardless.

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

she wont back down,she is stubborn but had a feeling it would come down to that

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Trust me, she'll lose, and end up with AT LEAST three points, maybe a bigger fine and costs against her, plus having to have time off to go to court.

Just not worth it. THEY WILL LIE!!

Alcazar

WRX_Dazza

thats bad news mate....

difficult pill to swallow and goes against all principles!!!!

copper probably didnt get his nuts in last night!!!!

OllyK

6 points min now for driving with a mobile isn't it?

Adidas

Just out of interest, what was she holding to her ear?

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Always fight it when points are at stake. There will be a larger fine if she loses. Scottish system is slightly different as regards costs on both sides, so check before taking on a solicitor.

Andy

Snazy

The network can however produce for the police a report of all phone traffic im sure.
If it reaches court, a good solicitor would be able to demand this proof for a solid conviction.

WRX_Dazza

sounds like her watch glinting from what he said above.....

i often sit in a jam with my hand on my cheek, leaning on the door sill, and it could look like i'm on the phone to anyone driving past.

might go back to the old "70's starsky and hutch" style gripping on the edge of the roof position from now on.

OllyK

Then they'll do you for driving without due care for not having both hands on the wheel

Sonic'

Failing to be in proper control of a vehicle

Thats what I was told I could be charged with

I did have my mobile in my hand, but was moving it onto the passenger seat from the door pocket

I was going to let it go to court, because both the phones I had on me at the time had not made or recieved calls for at least 12 hours previous to being stopped

The police never took my mobile numbers either, plus it is incredibly difficult to establish the precise time, the phone operator, your watch, the officers watch, the time in his car, and the time in your car, and the time reported on the incident form will all vary

The only time this can properly be proven is that if you were on the phone for quite some time

stevem2k

the Cell>Cell handover records will show if the phone is in use over any time/distance.

Getting these off the mobile operator will probably be difficult though.


Steve

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

nothing.she said she flicked her hair from her face and it was her watch they must have seen.They said it was silver but her phone is all black

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

tried that.Her operator is orange and they said they cannot give them out,all they can do is give an itemised bill that shows calls and texts made but not recorded

Snazy

Im sure they will provide them to the prosecution though
At which point the CPS will see no case and drop it.

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

cheers snazy,she has made an appointment with a solicitor,even if she loses she wont back down

gallois

the derek bentleys, colin staggs, john james', angela cannings etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on and on will testify the corruption of policing and the legal system in the UK. good luck to your mum, even if she does lose, her pride and dignity will be intact, i have every respect for the people of the world who fight for what is right.

GC8WRX

I would take it to court, this sort of *** head policing seriously winds me up!!!
I would also make a formal complaint and follow it up relentlessly until something was done!!!

PaulC72

fight it, if her phone is black how could they see a silver glint, the police have also seen the phone and it was in the glove box so they would have seen her bend over to put it away etc.

Good luckt o her but you cannot roll over and take it when you are right.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

No, sorry, BOTH officers will swear he said "something black" not silver

I've a mate who was arrested at a footy match for telling the ref he was a "dead man". What he actually shouted was, "You're useless, Deadman", at referee Darren Deadman..

They STILL charged him and both coppers said he'd sworn, he'd resisted arrest, and tried to assault them. No mention in the charges of telling ref he was a dead man. The statement they made with time etc didn't match the time stamp on the CCTV evidence, but hey..........he lost.

Alcazar

The Dogs B******s

F*ck em,if she's going to get some points anyway,she might aswell go to court and fight it.I know loads of coppers in traffic who tell me,they've got targets and they dont reach them there back on the beat.So there out there just to make money(greedy tw*ts)

noobyscooby

This is exactly the kind of case that makes people despise the police. And its going to get a lot worse too. If I was your mother, I'd go to court, wait until they confirm they saqw a silver phone and then produce the black one with the records.

SetoN

Go to the papers. They love things like this. Especially as the fines are about to go up. Risk of loosing your licence over scratching your head. They will have a field day

And a bit of media attention never hurts in small cases like this.

gazza-uk

Having a black phone s no defence, you could have just bought one to cover your story.

I would go to court; I have stood in court and won 2 speeding cases representing myself.

The mags don't side with anyone; you just have to put reasonable doubt in their minds.

Mifo

iTrader: (10)

great so its coming to the point where a person cant put their hand near their ear whilst driving!!!??

astraboy

Not unless you get a witness statement from the person you bought the phone off stating you were sold a black phone.
Hell, you could even produce the receipt, I bought my phone last month and the colour was on there.
astraboy.

gazza-uk

mmm actually thinking about it, the IMEI should be logged..

However, they could still turn around and say she was using smebody else's phone.

To beat them you have to think of every possible angle to cover off in court.

spider

iTrader: (1)

I've a couple of friends who are in the force and they despise this target-led policing. It's not proper coppering in their books.

They're also waiting to see who amongst them will be the first to be suffer the backlash from a member of the public and get seriously injured or worse - just remember that the bobbies on the beat aren't the ones who put these stupid targets in place, but they are the ones who have to implement them & suffer the immediate reactions.

Those who come up with these ideas never have to implement them; same as politicians sending troops to war, the leaders are well away from the area where it all tuns bloody.

Having said that, I think your mum should fight her corner; there's no point in just saying "I did it" for an easy life if she didn't do it. Good luck to her.

Cheers,
Steve