James Neill

iTrader: (1)

I was having dinner with some friends tonight including some teachers. Some of their stories just amazed me. Then, when I got thinking, it just plain worries me. I'm in my early 30s, so its been a while since I was at school - but I'm not some fuddy-duddy. Here's a snapshot of a few things

- Kid drops litter in the playground (sandwich packet). It's seen by a teacher and the kid denies it and walks away the teacher can't exactly run after them. No recourse possible - to much paperwork!

- Kid gets detention for basically being an **** - but doesn't turn up. So has to do a Friday detention instead, and for longer. Again doesn't turn up. The next course of action is to write to their parents. Most of the time they don't get a response even after calling. The rest of the time they get an abusive parent arguing the kid shouldn't be on detention.

- 15 year old kid is kicking up a fuss in class. Finally, the root cause is found - he's not very good at reading. Transpires that he has no books at home (ie, none at all in the house) and has never read one in his life. Didn't even cross the mind of the parents that something might be lacking!

- Supply teacher is taking a class - and puts down a few ground rules (firm but fair kind of stuff). The kids revolt and walk out the class saying the teacher can't treat them like that !!!

- Teacher rings parents to complain that one child only has a 70% attendence rate (about 3 and a bit days a week). The parents think this is good!

- Kid is acting up in class. Basically, the kid rebels against everything. It gets raised at parents day and the mum/dad go ape saying that its not the kids fault and that the teachers can't control him. Transpires that the kid is a spoilt brat and doesn't like being told what to do in class because he's never had any rules at home.

- Some of the kids in the school are on "anger management" tuition. This is a bog standard secondary school and they have "anger management" issues! When I was that age I didn't even know there was such a thing. The kids get told to raise their hand in class if they feel they're getting "angry" so they can take five and step outside for a while to calm down. What the f**k is this all about?

It's not just at school. Some of the next generation is finding their way into the workplace.

- New recruit for a large firm is taken on to support some training programme. He emails the CEO and calls him "mate" within the first couple of weeks. He's completely oblivious to any kind of decorum or business manners. Doesn't even realise he's done anything wrong.


Please, please tell me it's all going to be OK! Or just share your horror stories. Some of you must be teachers or have spouses that are?

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

It will be fine for me, and anyone else who leaves this country

Its just shocking what is allowed to happen in schools. The level of recourse is incredibly low

_RIP_

There is no hope really, not through legal recourse. About the bit about this filtering through to work, yes of course it's happening. Guy at work, complete ****, but ever so good at playing the system. Eventually taken out to the woods by our five tractor drivers on pretence of a job, shown his plot and told to dig. Hey presto. Said talking to meant absolutely no come back as they all had their story set. He never turned up for work the next day and hasn't been heard of since. Sad that it comes to this but if it works.

hux309

Yup, if school doesn't sort them out working in the real world will give them a hefty kick up the backside.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

But it doesn't does it?

Lets face it, you don't need to be very old to have seen and experienced the serious downturn in the number of people that actually care about what they are doing. Staff so often just do not care, and companies themselves are massively more capitalist than they used to be (on average)

j4ckos mate

corporal punishemt and teachers that really want to be there
and of course two loving parents that the kids can see not arguing but having fun together thats what they they need
that and a swift kick in the bollocks

dpb

All sounds pretty much the way its always been apart from :

Id be surprised if the teacher had direct access to pupils teacher by phone just like that

The anger management thing - smacks of new labour wishy washy leftist thinking


The last geezer will is also a victim thus - will prolly go far :Whatever


























Bring back the birch - never did me any harm

Odds on

My Mum works in a Secondary school dealing with the problem kids. Some of the things she tells me are crazy.

She rang a parent a little while ago to ask why the kid wasn't in school and to see if they knew it wasn't the first time. Their reply "Well your the one on 50 grand a year, you sort 'em out"!

She's on nowhere near 50k, and surely its the parents job to 'sort out' their kids??

Other kids parents just call her racist for ringing them. Even though its her job. They know that playing the race card might get them off the hook. WTF?? !

When my daughter starts school, she will be there. God help her if I find out otherwise.

DavidJohn

Going to have to agree Im afraid. Thinking back (about 20 years now i think about it) we played up but if told to sit down and behave we did it. No question of 'human rights' etc If I was caught littering I expected a bollocking off the teacher and another off my parents and I knew Id done something wrong and didnt do it again.

They just cant seem to take responsibility for anything,its not the kids fault they are a 'victim',its not the parents fault-so who the hell else do you blame. Its the bloody kids fault or the parents-end of story.Its the parents responsibility to ensure their child turns up to school ready to learn and respect the teachers as if they were their parents. It sends shivers down my back to think some of the useless sods leaving school now will be looking after me when Im too old to do it--God I think I might just top myself on retirement and save myself some indignity.

Wow that was a rant and a half.Feel better now !!!

j4ckos mate

unless they are actually dead, mine go in no matter whats wrong with them,
im sure you all work with people who ring in sick at the least opportunity.
theres nothing worse than an unreliable collegue, so mine get marched in no matter what.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

When I was growing up, one of the main reasons I wouldnt misbehave is that I knew that if my father found out then I'd be in serious trouble.

Its easy to blame the teachers, but if the kids were disciplined properly in the home in the first place, then there problem would be much smaller. I think a lot of parents just dont give a toss now, and if the school do phone them with a problem, then they dont seem interested.

billythekid

20 years ago countries like China and Russia were seen as very bad and nasty countries. However now our country is in a bit of a state their firm hand on their kids and their people kind of looks like a good idea.. dont get me wrong I am sure some bad things happen in both countries but I doubt you will see a Chinese kid giving a teacher lip... they would get beaten to within and inch of their life, and then probably again when they got home!

I also think the state support system is shocking - so many kids dont want an education or a job, they just want their council house and their support money.

ScoobyDoo555

I work in Further Education. Therefore, I get to experience the resulting mess that leaves school.

I'm one of the lucky ones - my courses only recruit students of a high enough standard (due to the subject material).

However, I still witness these very attitudes.

The sad thing is that the schools/teachers are that tied up by the Governement, that despite most wanting to address the issues, they simply cant.

The problem, IMHO, firmly lies with the parents. We now have a generation of parents who haven't got a clue how to parent.......

The good parents are sadly in a minority

DAn

David Lock

1000% correct Dan.

Bug Eyed Peas

My son is 5, I have just spoken to the teacher about how he is getting on in his first year in school.
Her reply was, that his mannerisms are impeccable.

I believe that the route to a well behaved child is to install discipline at an early age. I was brought up to be polite and manners cost nothing.

Some of the language I hear coming from teenagers is nothing short of disgusting. I would have been dragged inside and given a clip around the ear.

Ant

jods

What? He twitches in time to the lesson ?

Bug Eyed Peas

Oops. I worded that incorrectly. Manners are impeccable.

Leslie

That is absolutely right. Children must be taught discipline right from the beginning and they should understand that they must respect authority. I was made to understand that I was not to question my parents or teachers or my elders generally for that matter. A policeman's word was law too.

We respected our teachers and would not dream of causing any kind of disturbance in class.

We were also taught to respect other people and to think of others before ourselves.

These days I hear of schoolchildren being allowed to say how the school and its classes should be run for goodness sake!

We need discipline and if necessary corporal punishment if a child will not do as he is told.

Les

Gav

It's kids having kids these days and it is in a major downward spiral with not much hope of a return

DCI Gene Hunt

13 year old DCI 'forgets' his gym kit one day at school, PE teacher gives a young cheeky DCI a few slaps with a gym shoe from lost & found box...

DCI tells parents....

Parents give DCI a few more slaps for getting slaps in the first place



I never forgot my gym kit after that

Bug Eyed Peas

When I was at school, over 20 years ago Teenage pregnancy was unheard of, now it is common place in society.

The Zohan

Recently had the need to call out an ambulance for our eldest who had an allergic reaction.

The paramedic stated that this was the first child they had treated that day that was not alcohol related - this was out of 15 children!

I left school in 1981, i do not ever remember anyone at school getting shot, having a gun, knowing anyone who had a gun or could get hold of one. same goes for knives as well. If we had a problem we sorted it out with our fists if the need arose.

I think one girl out of the whole (final) year got pregnant but then agian there were not the 'incentives' there are now!

As far as drugs went they where not really avaliable to me or my peers - it may be i lived a sheltered life.

Looks like decency morals and respect for yourself and others are old fashioned concepts and the only way to earn respect is to win big brother (or any one of the other chav tv shows) and become one of the breed of talentless so called celebs.


You could say it is looking back with rose tinted specs or you could say things have gone down hill and getting out of control

mark engers

This is entirely due to the fact that the 'wrong' sort of people are breeding. For every set of genuine 'good' parents I see interacting with their children positively I see another 10 who are either completely disinterested with their revolting offspring, choosing instead to ignore/inflict them on people around them or have had kids as some kind of naive fashion/lifestyle statement and are utterly clueless as to how to bring them up.

The latter two groups have my utmost contempt, and I tell them as much at every opportunity, usually triggering a torrent of foul mouthed abuse in front of their repugnant children.

Some neckless dullard heard me say "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" in response to his ugly little foetus shouting at people to "**** off". His response was to tell me to "**** off".

Q.E.D. I think, my good man.

How I laughed at his abject stupidity.

skoobidude

Bring back the cane. Hit any ba5tard child who dares to disgree with teacher.

Nick

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

DCI - that is spot on, and exactly how I grew up !

Without wanting to sound too much like Hitler, it does seem that the really chavvy, low intelligence parents are the ones churning out kids they have no interest in bringing up properly, and would rather spend their dole on **** than condoms.

Most young middle class couples I know are very careful about birth control as they want to get a decent career going, buy a house etc... before thinking about children.

Although saying that, some people we lived near before were a typical mid 30's middle class professional couple, and they didnt have a clue. Their kids would be out screaming in the back garden until 11pm on school nights, and their idea of telling them off was to try and reason with them ( with a 4 and 6 year old ! ) - I never once actually heard them threaten to smack them or raise their voices, it was always 'please dont do that, its very naughty' when one was trying to stab the other with a screwdriver.

Bug Eyed Peas

In response I would like to say, that I go to work for a living as I am sure the large percentage of people do on this forum.

Maybe its the morals that I was brought up with. But, I`m sure that most aren`t happy to work 40 or 50 hours per week.

But at least I can wake up on a morning with a conscience knowing that I have a job, a home & a family to care for.

Ant

StickyMicky

class thread, i remember being at school (i`m 29) and one of my mates setting his lip up at the teacher, mate was staring out the window, teach threw a chalk duster at his head, mate stands up and gets lippy, teacher threw a fooken chair at him and told him to sit the **** down

mate was never lippy ever again LOL

Gilesdwrc

Right!

If this country is going the same way as the u.s. we're ****'ed with a capital F.

10 or so years ago i was a counselor at an American summer camp, and the culture then was like the u.k. now.

We were NEVER allowed to 'manhandle' the kids if two kids were fighting we were to ask them to stop and (how i hate these words) "empathize with them to bring about a mutually agreeable solution".

B@@loks, I used to grab 'em and drag 'em away from each other sit 'em down and b@@lok them. I got in to trouble a few times but always had the respect(fear?) of the kids and other counselors for taking no ****.

It only went wrong once when a group came with their own leaders and one of them hit me over the head after I'd dragged two fighting kids from a bunkhouse. /

So if you want to see the future of English youth look to the U.S. I'm waiting for the first English school shooting . Hopefully the relative lack of guns will help prevent it.

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Whilst I agree with the majority of the opinions on this thread as the proud parent of two youths I think that a little perspective is needed.

Whilst there are no doubt some real scumbags (and their parents) around I would think that they probably represent a relatively small minority of all youths. Yes, the scumbags cause an inordinate amount of trouble and stress for teachers and I agree that NL policies have by no means helped this situation, however from experience I also know that this sort of behaviour also impacts negatively on the majority of (relatively) well behaved youths.

I think that we should give (some of) the kids a chance rather than tarring them all with the same brush which is patently unfair.

logiclee

True but give respect and they receive respect.

I help run our residents group and we have dealings with the beat manager and pcso's. There are a few Yobs near the estate that cause trouble but saying how big the school is that's saying that 95% of that age don't cause problems.

It's very hard to deal with the 5% because the parents have the same mindset as their kids. It's not the schools fault although the school could be helped by removing some of these nanny PC rules.

These people shouldn't be allowed to breed, that's the only solution.

Cheers
Lee