Hanley

I'm looking for a bit of info regarding employer references, specifically relating to what they can and can't say.

Background is I worked for a company and in January 2005 an anomoly was spotted which appeared to suggest that some overtime of mine had been duplicated and submitted twice. This was a genuine error and over a period of 8 months it totalled around 4k, average monthly take home was 3-5 to 4k.

Bearing in mind every overtime form was signed by myself, my manager, his manager and a director. I was shocked to find they thought it was deliberate on my part and basically accused me of theft.

I strenuously denied this but strugled in any way to prove it, my immediate manager and his manager both stood up to speak for my character, integrity etc, anyhow, they offered me 2 options - go through the disciplinary procedures (obvious dismissal) or resign gracefully and repay all monies owed.

I resigned on the spot and the 4k was deducted from money they owed me. End of story.

I then decided to go contracting and after 16 months contracting with another company they offered me a full-time position. My current circumstances (kids etc) made this a good time to settle again so I accepted and started on 25th June.

Come into work today and my boss issues me a letter inviting me to a HR hearing on Friday because they've received an unsatisfactory reference from my previous company who are stating gross misconduct.

I'm now being told my employment here is subject to satisfactory references going back 5 years and this could lead to me losing my job.

Can my previous company state gross misconduct if I resigned??

At the very most I would have thought they may say 'instaisfactory performance'.

Any advice would be appreciated

turbomatt

iTrader: (1)

Im no expert in this field mate but if your telling the whole truth about not knowing these overtime payments were being paid into your wages and they have no proof of any wrong doings from you then surely you have good grounds for slander?

Hanley

It was a genuine error, but obviously very hard to prove guilt or innocence in these cases.

The company stance was that i signed the forms so the buck stopped with me.

Just contacted my previous manager (who has now left) and he confirmed that I resgined and no disciplinary proceedings were started.

turbomatt

iTrader: (1)

Its quite a serious situation your in if you risk losing your job over it,So i would be straight into my previous employers workplace and ask them who gave the reference and what proof they have with the gross misconduct.Then threaten them with court proceedings for slander if they dont ammend the reference.Of course you probably wont take it that far but its worth a try especially if you like your new job

The Zohan

Sounds like sh*t mate.

Be honest and explain the situation assuming you have worked for this new company without any issues then they can see you are on the level.

Is there anyone else you can use for a reference?

Speak to an employment lawyer or citizens advice

john_s

iTrader: (1)

Sounds a bit harsh to me; you weren't given the opportunity to state your case at a disciplinary hearing, so how can they find you guilty of gross misconduct? If you've not been found guilty of it, you can't be sacked for it...

That said, it might depend on just how the reference has been worded. (Please excuse the speculation here) For example, the question might have been asked "Why did the employee leave your company?" and their reply could have been "He resigned following an allegation of gross misconduct", which while a little harsh, would be technically correct.

IMO what the old company should have done was declined to give a reference.

Perhaps a phone call to ACAS or a Citizens Advice employment specialist might be your best move.

If it's going to be a real issue with your new company, perhaps the best thing to do would be to be completely open with them and tell them exactly what went on.

DCI Gene Hunt

If it's true that you resigned then they have committed defamation, by providing a malicious reference.

If it is an inaccuracy, and you fail to get the job because of a negligent misstatement then your prior employer is liable and you can 'sue' him

DC Ironside Hunt

GCollier

My wife works in HR, though is specialised in comp & ben rather than recruitment. But take a look on CIPD's website - there is a lot of info there:

CIPD - References

DCI Gene Hunt

HR = Human Remains.....

Jamz3k

i'm near sure employers can't given negitive comments regarding ex-staff members.

Drunken Bungle Whore

References are a minefield! An employer can say what they like as long as it is factually correct and can be backed up by evidence. John_S makes a good point about how they've worded why you left their employment.

Were any of your discussions classed as Verbal Warnings - or were you given a written warning? If so, these would show up on your employment record as you left immediately.

Have you given any reasons for why you left to your current employer - perhaps they're concerned about discrepancies?

If there's a problem you could try asking the managers who spoke up for you before to act as referees?

Good luck.

ZIPPY

I worked at a large telecoms company and one of my team never got on with our female manager, he left found another job.

He then on the back on the written offer stupidly bought the same day, a brand new Porsche Boxster.

3 weeks later his HR team contact him to inform him a previous reference has come up iffy.

His old manager told a member of his new companies HR team he was unreliable and disruptive. She even sent an e-mail backing her claims up.

Anyway he lost his new job, Porsche on its way his rear portion twitching (No money)

He succesfully sued my company who settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
My manager should never have given such a bad reference basically, it was a clash of personalities. I always ask and check of peoples ability to do the job in question. My advice is to be honest and tell your company of the Finance **** up and that you paid all monies back in full but then felt your position was made untenable by the company leaving you no option but to resign.

Wish

iTrader: (2)

I also thought that a referance can only be given if employment was within the last 6 months ..

TopBanana

That's a myth.

SJ_Skyline

XYZ's work was outstanding.


- Think about it!

Hanley

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I managed to track down my old manager who now works elsewhere and he has spoken to the Senior Service Delivery Manager (the other guy present in the meeting the day I resigned).

He has confirmed that I did in fact gracefully resign, paid back all money owed and no displinary proceedings were issued.

He's also spoken to their HR department who have agreed they've made a ***** up and I'm now just waiting for them to re-issue the reference.

Hopefully my HR department will now receive the correct reference and the matter will be dropped, I have explained to my current employer that I felt my position was untenable, I had no way of proving that this was due to an error so my only option was to resign.

What a way to start the week

Hanley

Prior to this I had no verbal or written warnings or been in trouble at all.

I'm a good little worker

Drunken Bungle Whore

Nope - most employers go back 5 years or so - often longer for more senior positions.

Yes they can make negative comments - but ONLY if it can be facutally verified. For example if you worked somewhere with a clocking in system and you were repeatedly late they could state this on a reference as it's verifiable. But they couldn't just say something like "poor attitude" as it's too subjective.

Thing is most of us never know what's in our references so ex employers could probably say whatever the hell they liked.....it only becomes a problem for them if someone finds out about it and challenges it.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone else get the impression that HR departments are their solely to generate aggro for every employee, bloody personal development plans, race awareness seminars, annual reviews, team building and all the other pointless work generation schemes.

Call it staff again, get them to hire, fire and sort the wages out, anything else f*ck off.

Hanley

Amen father

NotoriousREV

Our place had a cracking "annual review" last year. I had a team of 8 lads who worked shifts, they gave me a week to do it in at the busiest time of the year work-wise. Each team member had to rate themselves from 1 - 10 and I had to rate them from A - F. The bloody thing was about 50 pages long.

"I fully align myself wth the company's goals and principles" Erm, 7? No, D. Erm?

VoteConservative!

Take them to a tribunal!