Petem95

Newspaper quotes from de la Rosa-Alonso email - Yahoo! Eurosport UK

Oh dear.. if this is all correct then McLaren will surely get thrown of the 2007 and maybe also 2008 championships.

The article claims senior members such as Ron Dennis and Mike Coughlan could be jailed if its proven they did know about stolen information from Ferrari.

I expect Alonso will be off to Renault and Hamilton has apparently already agreed to go to Toro Rosso if they are thrown out of the 2008 season.

pslewis

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!

EddScott

Least he wasn't caught naked on a **** chatroom Leslie Grantham style.

Would never have lived that one down.

Simon 69

An 'Italian paper'; not exactly credible is it? Add to that that its only hearsay.....

NotoriousREV

Was this "italian newspaper" the Maranello Times?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

More mountains out of molehills from the media as ever

The biggest laugh is the Hamilton to Torro Rosso comment, why would one of the best newcomers ever to F1 need to go to a back of the grid B team. I have a feeling that should he leave McLaren he would have pretty much the pick of the remaining teams.

mightyyid

Hahashahahaa - total and utter nonsense. Hamilton to Torro Rosso. What makes it worse is you wrote it down, let alone believe it...

Next you'll be telling me it's Ralf to replace Alonso. Button to replace Fisichella. And Colin McRae to Red Bull...

Worth a laugh - then delete...

mart360

Yawn,,, Who gives a toss

so Alonso go's, to X, Hamilton to Y () button to Z.. etc, and the roundabout goes on and on and on...


lets face it every year, theres a xxxxxxx (insert team name) scandal...if it aint the red team, its some other team shouting impropriaty

if anything the FIA should give Mclaren a pat on the back, and telling ferrari, "thats what you should have done with the technology"

Mart

Asl long as hamilton wins, the rest can go drive round racetracks


Mart

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Follow F1 closely do you mart?

Petem95

The same newpaper source that makes the Torro Rosso claim is the one which reports the contents of the email, so maybe both claims are not credible!

McLaren are, IMO going to get a hefty penalty however - as a mimimum a big fine and points being deducted.

It could mean either Kimi or Massa will be world champion this season.

mart360

not since Mansell & Senna used to go head to head....

lets be honest... if it isnt one team, its another whinging about what they did or didnt get away with

the only loosers yet again will be the paying punters


mart

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well the emails certainly exist, but the point is whether their content relates to the Ferrai documents that were in Coughlan's/McLaren's possession or just the fact that the team had found a way to make the Bridgestone's work.

As a long time follower of F1 I can't help but feel that this is an FIA witch hunt to get Ron Dennis out of the sport which despite the fact I have little time for him myself is not fair or right. I have no doubt that some skullduggery has gone on here, but it is almost impossible to prove to what level, if at all, McLaren have used the Ferrari documents.

Even though some are claiming that it is the reason this year's McLaren is so fast that is compelte tosh as this year's cars were designed last year well before McLaren even had thse documents. They could well have used some of the information to tune the car's perfroamnce/set-up but in truth I think it unlikely.

At the end of the day mart is right and it is the paying customer that is once again suffering here.

Still at least it's not Schuey's fault this time

Leslie

I sincerely hope that this year's championship is not affected whatever the outcome.

It would ruin it for us all and there would be no interest left for the rest of this season.

Les

SJ_Skyline

Sounds like the same sort of witch-hunt journalism that l'equipe use whenever the leader of the tour de france is not french.

Maybe for their next story they might want to look at the legality of the ground-effect produced by the current Ferarri's wheels. Oh, sorry - they're only for cooling the brakes.... Yeah right!

^Qwerty^

Seems pretty clear to me that Ferr..... I mean the FIA are going to crucify Mclaren. Think I read somewhere this morning that Ron is talking about pulling the team out of F1, which would be a real shame; that's if he has the power to do that?
However whilst Ferr...sorry, I mean the FIA continue on this witch hunt, it might be the nuclear option that gets somebody to bang a few heads together and stop this charade.

F1 2008 without Mclaren won't be worth watching IMO.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yawn at the Ferr..FIA comments, can't you at least come up with something orginal

The fact remains that the full specification of the F2007 and the various working practices surrounding the Ferrari F1 team were in McLaren's possession or are you going to suggest they were planted. Actually you probably are

The problem for me has been the bungled way in which the FIA and associated bodies have handled the whole case. Once again there is little logic to the way verdicts are reached and the associated penalties are handed out.

The latter is what smacks of a witch hunt to me. Nothing to do with Ferrari, far more to do with Max Mosley and Ron Dennis.

^Qwerty^

I've not seen that fact proved yet. But are you going to say that if an individual has access to information, then that means the whole team or the company they work for has? I don't agree with that. I also thought that another team had been approached as well?

And I'd agree with the yawn comment, because I for one, am tired of the ever so biased FIA-Ferrari relationship.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

So are you saying that Coughlan as chief designer of McLaren should be allowed to get away with possessing the IP of a rival team as long as he says he has never shared it with them? This depsite the fact that at least 3 other senior members of the McLaren knew he had the douments, but of course they had never looked at them either.

As I said yawn. What a load of BS, but you carry on believing it if it makes you happy

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

I do hope you don't become a judge.

"Your colleague told you he had stolen a biro from work - you are guilty and going down for 10 years as well".

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Biros???? What a ludicrous parallel.

Let's spell it out in plain English. Coughlan is the chief designer of an F1 team. The full documentation of another team's car is in his possession. It is a clear case of intellectual property being in the hands of someone it shouldn't be. This has already been found to be the case by the FIA in the first hearing just in case you missed that.

The argument now centres round whether McLaren benefited from this information and it is here that I feel the FIA are on dodgy ground and the whole witch hunt thing comes into play.

Look at it this way if a software company stole a rival software company's code and used it in their own product they would be prosecuted, but it is unlikely that would be the case if they stole a biro

john_s

iTrader: (1)

If McLaren are guilty of possesing Ferrari information by way of an employee (Coughlan) having it, are Ferrari not also at fault for having given the information to them?

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Then why blame McLaren in earlier posts?

Especially as you appear to understand the situation so much better than us by then contradicting yourself and apparenly McLaren did not benefit :-)

Dream Weaver

Disallowing Mclaren to take part the next 2 years is stupid, and does nothing for F1, taking points from either of their drivers does nothing for F1 either.

Ferrari should have taken more care over their confidential data, end of story.

Flatcapdriver

Ferrari could never have foreseen that one of their employees, Nigel Stepney, would have given it to McLaren could they?

Dream Weaver

True, but nobody died

Maybe Ferrari don't look after their staff enough

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Blame them for what? There is no argument they were in possession of the documents as the intial FIA hearing already proves. Just to spell it out Coughlan is their chief designer, it is not the same as the teaboy having them in his workroom locker. On top of that 3 other senior members of the team admit to knowing he had them and having seen them. McLaren themselves have not denied any of this so we must believe it to be true.

No the argument is that having imposed no penalty first time round the FIA now seek to haul them back in front of the WMSC for another go as they have 'further evidence'. The point is I and others fail to see that they can ever prove McLaren have used the documents to their advantage which was why they escaped punishmnet first time round and this is what to me is making this look like a witch hunt.

I do not see any contradiction in my posts which are all fairly level headed and neutral, maybe you should have another read.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

Frank Williams has actually said this kind of things is happening all the time and is part of F1. It has all come to light as Ferrari aren't as dominant as they would like so they are looking at other ways of winning. Ferrari don't like losing. It wouldnt surprise me if it wasnt a setup, and a company with as much money as Ferrari could "find" someone quite easily to plant things.

It was only a few years when M Schumacher was looking all over a rivals car that had beaten him (was that mclaren?), nothing was done about that.

Although the document was found, there is no reason to use any of the data as these teams employ highly skilled engineers/technicians. They can get footage of their rivals cars and see things on them that may help, and like previously said the cars were designed last year so were they planning on using the info for next year and take a step back?

^Qwerty^

I do actually prefer watching the run up to the races rather than the races themselves at the moment. Much more interesting.
Obviously the practice and race to watch will be the one after the next hearing. Even more so if the grid is two cars down. However the action on the track will be dull and of no interest whatsoever, with two red cars out front, and no championship to speak of anymore.

Flatcapdriver

But do they? The journalist who brought the alleged e-mails into the publice domain has now admitted that the content of those e-mails was down to his interpretation rather than what either Alonso or De La Rosa actually said.

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Thank you, I realise I know nothing and need it all explaining to me :-)

Thank you again - clearly no one knows more than you and I will go re-read and make sure I contact you before any more discussion on my part about this whole sorry affair that McLaren instigated.