JamieMacdonald

Hi all,

Looking for some advice from the many dog owner/experts on here!

We have a 4 month old Collie X Lab puppy (Badger). We are going away for 3 weeks in September, so my Parents are going to look after him at their house. We have tried to take him around there as much as possible, and get him used to their old Springer, Leo. They get on great, and he seems to love it round there (apart from the 2 cats who beat him up). So...

My parents neighbours have an American Bulldog, Molly, and had a Staff* which they have had to ask someone else look after as they were having problems with the two of them fighting.

*Just to add, in case you are starting to form a stereotyped view of their neighbours, that's really not the case here (4 bed detached houses, country lane, nice area).

Molly is (at a guess) only about a year old, but huge! A few months ago she started to get more vocal, including barking at anything and going up to the back (picket) fence and more recently jumping up and barking in an aggressive manner. The first time we took Badger round she was very aggressive and nearly broke the fence down - one day she even got her collar hooked on the fence while barking at my Mum, who had to rescue her! My parents had wanted to put up a bigger/stronger fence for a few reasons, and Molly's behaviour was even more reason to. So my Dad and I spent a few days erecting a 6 ft solid fence with concrete posts etc. There were still a couple of sections (2 feet wide) that were the old fence, but my Dad changed these to very secure/solid pieces of fence about 4-5 foot high. He eventually plans to replace these bits with cut down sections of the full size panels we used for the rest of the fence.

Anyway, my gf and I were away for a few days last week, so thought we would leave Badger with Mum and Dad as a dry run for when we go away (he's stayed for the odd night before). On the Saturday, just before we picked him up, my mum was talking to her neighbour when all of a sudden Molly scaled the lower section of fence into my parents garden, and went straight for Badger, picking him up in her jaws and shaking him. Now Badger isn't a small puppy (>17 kg), so that gives you an idea of the power of this dog! Luckily my Mum was there, and screamed for my Dad, and one broken rake later they had got Molly off Badger! He was quite badly cut and couldn't use his leg, and obviously extremely frightened. Not sure what happened next but my Dad took Badger in doors, and we arrived not long afterwards. We couldn't get hold of our vet but we managed to take him to another one for a check over, by which point he was using his leg ok and the cuts were only superficial.

I've just got a few concerns about the whole thing... What should we do about Molly - is this just acceptable 'dog' behaviour, or do we need to involve some sort of authorities. My gf and I think we should report it to the police/warden(?), but bearing in mind it's my parents neighbours, I'd like to do things sensitively. I think they have been to puppy training with the dog, and had a behaviouralist (sp?!) round, and have already looking into rehoming her, but the only intrest has 'apparently' been from people who want her purely as a breeding machine, or undesireables who want her for fighting. Also, the vets bill is over £100 already and he needs to go back tomorrow.

Just wondering what other people would do in this situation? A good start would be to make the fence full height along the whole garden, but I'd still be concerned about leaving Badger there, and he'd be on his own for part of the day when we go on holiday - the first website I looked at said this breed of dog has been known to leap over 6 feet!!

Hope it doesn't take as long to read this as it did to write it!

Cheers

wrx-kris

not all chavs are broke living on council estates you know.

JamieMacdonald

Please don't turn this into one of those threads. I know my parents neighbours fairly well and as I have already stated, that is not the case.

I'm just looking for people's opinion on the aggressive dog issue, cheers.

wrx-kris

No, I fully understand what your saying.
BUT () I live in a 3 bed terrace house on a back street in old trafford and own a staff - and I'm not a chav.

JamieMacdonald

Ok cool! BTW, I was referring to both dogs with my '*' asterix, not just the Staff!

Probably shouldn't have said anything at all - d'oh!

David Lock

Put Badger into kennels when you go away. dl

Matteeboy

I'd get the owners of Molly to make sure she is fully secured at all times (chained up) - that's just not on at all.

Also, Badger is still young and that sort of attack can really screw a dog up - He'll end up being very scared and harder to train.

Seeing as he'll only be about seven months old when you go away, I'd say he's too young for kennels.

Tricky situation though.

scooby_girlie

I'd definately go in and speak to the neighbours, and I'd suggest that they might like to pay for half, if not all of the vet fee's as it is entirely their fault. Owners our responsible for making sure their dog is secure, and is not a threat, at all times. So if Molly has escaped from her garden and attacked your dog then they are liable. So you have the legal right to expect them to pay for it. And if you took it to court, you would win.

I know it is an awkward situation with them being your parents neighbours, but what if it happens again, or what if it attacks a child next time? I'm not suggesting you go and start trying to get the dog put down, or anything like that. But I would definately explain the seriousness of it to her owners. And I definately agree with you - report it to your dog warden.

If it were me, I'd speak to the neighbours and I'd warn them how serious it is, and I would expect them to pay the full amount. If my dog did that then there would be no question as to what I would do. We had a staffie cross, called Lucy, and she was a gorgeous wee thing, but when she got older she turned on our other dogs, and we got rid of her. We figured that if she was like that with one of our own dogs, then she might end up going for a child. As a responsible dog owner I wouldn't want to take that risk.

It is NOT acceptable dog behaviour. Some dogs are prone to attacking other dogs, but these dogs should be muzzled when in public and always chained up (on a decent size chain) when outside. The other thing is, you said your mom and dad managed to get Molly off Badger? If, when your parents were trying to rescue Badger, Molly had turned on them, your parents would not have any legal right to prosecute for their own injuries, only Badgers. This is because of a stupid law that basically states that you must not get involved in a fight between two dog's as they could turn on you. So it basically says that it's your fault if you get bitten in that situation, while trying to save your own dog. Because it was in your parents back yard, it might be different, but if it was on the street your parents would have no rights. So imagine if that happened, as it could well do?

What have Molly's owners said about her attacking Badger? Have they not offered to pay the vet bills? Clearly they do not see that much of a problem or they would be much more careful. It's not your Dad's job to keep Molly out of his garden. It is Mollys owners responsibility to keep her secure in theirs. If the owners cannot/will not rehome the dog then they need to wise up and realise she could do some damage (as she already has done), and they need to be waaaay more careful.

Definately speak to them, ask them to reimburse the vet bills, and report to dog warden. At least then you'll have a record of the attack so that if something more serious does happen, it will show that the owners are already aware of the dog's temperament. Sorry bout the long post, but just thought I'd give my view.

JamieMacdonald

Thanks for the response scooby girl. They have asked about Badger and told my Dad we should keep all our receipts for any vets bills, so that's a good start. I'm going to report it to the local dog warden today, and have asked my Dad to mention it to them out of courteousy. I agree that Badger is probably too young to stay in kennels, but my parents have offered to stay at our house while we're away if necessary, so we don't need to worry about that.

D.K.1

Pretty much what scooby girlie said really...

Before contacting ANY authorities, have a good talk with your parent's neighbours about ways of them making sure their dog is suitably restrained, perhaps on a long chain with a skewer into the ground giving Molly the run of her garden, but not able to reach the fences, also, TBH seeing as the fence needed replacing to stop their dog gaining access, they should have helped with that IMO I do however think the dog warned should be aware, like SG said, had it been a child, it doesn't bare thinking about! A muzzle is a must from what I can gather from your post too.

It's pretty shocking what Molly did to Badger and the poor thing will probably be really frightened now

I am not so sure that them re-homing Molly is a good idea, they should spend more time on making her behave appropriately and take the measures needed to protect her and others from potential dangers. Not pass this problem on to someone else who may not be able to handle her or train her for fighting and breeding shouldn't be an option if she is aggressive

Kennels aren't bad places if you decide on one, but look around first for one that you feel comfortable with, they can be expensive but the dogs are usually well looked after, on rare occasions they can catch kennel cough though. As long as Badger is fully immunised there shouldnt be a problem getting him into one, saying that I don't know how old they have to be before they will accept them. The only thing now as regards to kennels is that Badger is badly injured and they may not wish to take in an injured dog incase he takes a turn for the worse or catches an infection etc...

Have the neighbours not spoken to your parents or you about this since the event? You woould think they would have at least apologised and enquired about Badgers condition and offered to help as it was their dog who got into your parents garden and attacked. They should secure the fences and make sure there is no way this could happen again, what happened was bad enough by the sounds of it, but it could have been comletely savage and done a lot worse IMO

I hope Badger recovers soon and this doesn't affect him too much mentally XX

D.K.1

D'oh, just read #9 LOL That wasn't there when I started typing

Glad they have enquired and requested the receipts

I don't think they should panic about the dog warden, they need to be aware in case anything of the kind happened again, plus they may even call round and offer advice on ways to prevent things like this happening again, as could the RSPCA if they were informed

Nido

An Alsation (that we have bumped into walking many times before and has always been fine) decided to attack my dog a few months ago.

My dog is totally passive, was just walking along minding her own business, when the Alsation came up she just stood still and did nothing like she always does, it just decided to try to eat her for some reason

Anyway, as it was getting hold of her back leg in its mouth I managed to kick it in the neck to get it to let go, and picked my dog up. It then tried to go for me, but a few more kicks and it thankfully gave up. I'm a big animal lover and never thought I'd be able to kick a dog, just shows how you react in a situtaion!

She was very wary of other dogs after this and I didn't want this to happen, I took her out to areas where there are loads of other dogs walking as much as possible afterwards, after a week or two she was back to normal!

Like getting back on a horse and all that, get him mixing with strange dogs again asap!

JamieMacdonald

Thanks for the advice guys . Badger has been back to the vets and he's fine tbh, his elbow is moving freely now and the vet says there will be no long term damage and he just has a few scabs and a nice bald patch where he was shaven!

The vet said we could start walking him on the lead again, so I took him round to my friends who has a puppy of a similar age, and they had a little play. The other puppy was quite an aggressive playmate, and Badger seemed a bit scared when it growled at him, but it probably sounded a bit like Molly did when she went for him, and he's never previously played with a dog which did that before, so I wasn't too worried! We took him for a short walk and he was desperate to get near every dog we came across, including a big husky on a chain, and dogs we saw at the vets - so I'm pretty sure it hasn't affected his behaviour towards other dogs. Although I don't imagine he'll be going near any American Bulldogs in a hurry!

The dog warden is going to phone me tomorrow. I'm not going to attempt to speak to my parents neighbours directly, I think the ***** in their court and a phonecall to ask how Badger is shouldn't be too much too ask, but hey-ho!

Cheers.