KiwiGTI

Quite embarassing really.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Australians 'repelled Iran navy'

Paddi70

Ahh, senior service and boot necks. What do you expect, at least the didn't have an ND.

astraboy

IMO British military might was at its best (resources vs. acheivements) during the falklands war.
astraboy.

fatherpierre

Left just over 4yrs ago after 12.5 years in the RAF

It was being scaled down large.

Leaving was the best thing I ever did.

Sadieslag

I have just left the Army after 17 years.....it feels great!

AndiThompson

Limited resources over stretched.

fatherpierre

When I joined it was on the back of the Iraq War 1990, and all was well, inc a 15% pay rise.

During my time it was all very in house and only the accepted got on. Any left wing showings meant you went nowhere.

Friends that have done well that are still serving say it's still racist/classist but want to leave are now desperate to leave make me thank my temper tantrum of 24/03//2002 for what I am/have now.

andythejock01wrx

C'mon, tell us about your temper tantrum.

Paddi70

That sums up our current state. joined in 88, a big impression in my life was the Falklands and wanted to be part of it, but was only 12
19 years later still here with a couple of years left. Our kit has got better, but our manning has been hit, although intakes are good, the standards have dropped. Before a traind soldier was what left depot, today you get a 3/4 trained soldier and the unit is responsible for the last bit. Bums on seats as we say.

rallying1

we had fek all kit in the Falklands fella, DMS boots,crappy waterproofs, no water hardly, dehydro rations, ltd ammo,it was only our training and determination that kept us going, my feet were gopping all the time I was there and a lot of the boys went down with trench foot, so whilst I would agree with you on the achievement side the resourse side was no different to today.

And as for this Aussie story, maybe its correct but dont slate our lot even if they were bootneck, cabbage heads.
you will never get to hear the whole thing just what the media want to portray.

speedking

The Australians had heard that if they were captured then their iPods would be confiscated, so put up more of a fight

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Joined Sept 9th 1980. Never forget that day.

Got to my Regiment just before the Falklands, we were in NI, then gave all my warm clothing away so they could ship it the the Falklands

Did Op Desert Sabre (Gulf 1) and waited ages for boots and deserts, got them as I left We did strip tanks in Germany for spares too!

Op Telic waited ages for ammo, rats, CBA covers, boots and deserts again, thank f**k I had some old stuff left from the first trip (see a pattern emerging here).

Agree with the 3/4 trained, some guys wait up to 18 months for courses, trained by civvies and no bed spaces available, quality control = bums on seats.

Kit is getting vastly better but it takes soooooooooo long to get it. Even UOR's are slow.

But, still massively proud of what I and all the guys do.

Yep an old git

Jerome

As well as the resources issue (Op Telic 1 was a nightmare for kit), I also think the average serviceman/woman is less robust than 20 years ago.

The PC and Health & Safety brigade has ensured that personel are molly coddled in comparison to 20 years ago. I'm sure someone from 40 years ago would say the same about people joining 20 years ago, but it's gone to the extreme now.

When I'm training recruits, if I want to straighten a recruits collar, I have to warn him/her that I'm going to touch them. Otherwise I have assaulted them.

There are plenty of "I know my rights" recruits in each intake, so you have to be very very careful about everything you do.

A recruit who has been shouted at because they have fecked up, can complain to the "management" and it is taken seriously. The intructor in question is given a talking to about the incident etc. Ridiculous.

When I was a recruit, I got all sorts of physical, mental and psychological abuse (challenges I prefer to call them), and I regard myself as a very robust soldier.

The kind of enemy that a British soldier is likely to be captured by nowadays, doesn't give a hoot about the Geneva convention, health & safety or political correctness. Or chopping someone's head off if it suits them.

If you can't stand being shouted at, being roughed up a bit (not bullied!) and put through some very challenging situations, as far as I'm concerned, you should join the Salvation Army, not the British Army. To a lesser degree, the same applies to all the armed forces.

IIRC, the only military departments that haven't lowered their entry standards are: Special Forces, The Royal Marines, The Parachute Regiment, the RAF Regiment and RN/Army/RAF Aircrew.

How long before these depts are forced to reduce their entry standards as well?

rallying1

When I'm training recruits, if I want to straighten a recruits collar, I have to warn him/her that I'm going to touch them. Otherwise I have assaulted them.

fekin hell I had twisted bootlaces on parade once, I got my foot stamped on by our CSM and jailed for 2 days for swearing!!

On P Cpy I fell over carrying the log and got a kick in the ribs and called a "useless short ar*s c**T" by the staff, if they did that now would they be told off by the PC police?

It is just stupid, at the end of the day we were being trained to kill , what are you supposed to do ask politely if they mind being shot?

andythejock01wrx

And so you should be Blue Dragoon. BTW, is the "blue" a reference to your Legacy or something else ?

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Well said

astraboy

I see what you say, but would you agree that going on the display from the 15 who were captured, do you think they could do the same thing you did back in 1982?
I'd like to hope so, but somehow I doubt it.
astraboy.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

No just a coincidence with my Regimental Stable belt (clue there too),colour of our Mess Dress Shirt and role in times of old. I spit on Napoleon especially on the 18th June.

rallying1

eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr in a word NO they wouldn't !
but then again, you had that dopey lumpy jumper in amongst them and TBH most of them were naval ratings wern't they? bit different to us lot who were called on as 'elite troops' to do the job we were trained for, this lot were just out for a bimble in a rubber boat.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

The majority of those who obviously know far more about the pressures of capture than us due to their in-depth reading of the Mirror are far too learned to make that distinction though

As for Training being easier now - most certainly - and training recruits is something I've avoided like the plague as its just too easy to get yourself in the crap. I've certainly noticed that in my Corps; and thats a very dangerous thing when you have an individual with very little experience being in a position to influence the commanders decision making process more so than most Captains or Majors.

But then when I passed out of Army training we had 13 pass out of Phase two from an intake of 47 (mainly due to the academic pressure you are placed under rather than beastings..!). Now in an intake of the same kind of size, they will only lose maybe 5 or 6; and from what I've seen, the quality of individual has only gone down in most cases.

Most people in the military don't know the full circumstances behind the capture of troops, let alone the previously mentioned Mirror readers. Those that do know the full details can comment on what did and did not go wrong and comment on the decisions made.

I'm sure many of those who are criticising would have been up in arms about "stupid squaddies" if they of engaged the Iranians and started who knows what....

Put up, Shut up, or Sign up. The choice is yours.

(Previously RAF Regt, before my current glorious Corps )

swampster

iTrader: (1)

From my initial intake of 36 when i joined the RAF (1990) more than half of them were sent back to civvy street or back flighted leaving just 14 of us remaining to pass from the original intake. I think there were something like 24 passed out in my flight, the rest came from the previous bunch of back flighters who bucked their ideas up.

I remember the RAF Regt guys not being adverse to the imposition of a bit of extra curricular discipline simply because they could... all character building stuff of course.

As time went on through my military career.. you could certainly tell the difference between many of the people who came in from my era and before from the bunch of molly coddled "I know my rights" lazy ar*e's that appeared later. None of them enjoyed a good beer for starters!

Not saying they were all like that, I'm sure there were some good eggs still making it in, I just didn't seem to come across many of them.

Although i do still miss the life to a degree I'm glad I got out when i did, it was on a slide then and had changed so much (and not for the better) in my relatively short career of 12 years.

Leslie

Are you criticising the men and women of the Forces or their lack of equipment for the jobs that they are expected to do?

I enjoyed all my time in the RAF even though many times things were not perfect in every way. That cannot be avoided of course.

I consider myself lucky to have served during the time that I did and I would not be keen to start it again now under present conditions of service.

Les

astraboy

no vulcans for starters
astraboy.

The Zohan

Or Klingons, if you excuse BLair and Flash Gordon - a good firm wipe with some three-ply should shift em

KiwiGTI

It was a question open for discussion, but in my opinion there are numerous factors.

I'm not sure previous generations in the forces would have done what the people involved would have done. It's obvious resources are not supplied to the forces as they should be.

It's also obvious that they are crippled by New Labour and PC rules when they come to training.

I also question some of the people involved in the forces - quite bluntly the UK personnel came across as chumps, little more than immature call centre workers. Not quite the battle-ready hard men that they should have been. Nor was their case helped by some of their actions after the event, which just re-affirmed the fact that they are part of the "celebrity" generation and have no pride or dignity in their country or it's forces.

I know for a fact that being PC hasn't infected the NZ and Aus forces when it comes to training. I also know that they are a lot more patriotic and would never have sold stories to tabloids.

Has the current UK society and political environment ruined the forces so much that this is now the best we can expect.

Leslie

I think you make some good points about the whole sorry business. It looks as though there were a good many factors by the organisation from the top downwards. I found the whole affair pretty disappointing and cannot understand why there was no significant thought towards the possibility of such an occurrance and the fact that they were allowed to be taken prisoner in the first place with no resistance shown.

The actions after the event were also disappointing although the prisoners may well have been briefed to cooperate with their captors in order to escape ill treatment. The business of selling the stories to the media was quite shameful in my view and the idea of giving them official permission to do so was unbelievable.

Les

astraboy

I agree, look at the facts here,
This is an except from a write up of the invasion of a falkland islands
Now Thats what you do when you're massively outnumbered and about to be captured
astraboy.

andythejock01wrx

Hmmm, so a regiment that dates back to Waterloo.....

CrisPDuk

No ******* **** Sherlock

From the Best in the World to the laughing stock in 25 years Bliar and Flash must be so proud

Leslie

As I mentioned above then!

Les