subevo

thinking of buying a rear projection t.v. anyone had any good/bad experience of these.hopefully to play ps2 on.model im thinking of is toshiba 5o inch .or should i just get a 36inch normal t.v. cheers.

DavidBrown

I've got a 50" Pioneer Plasma 16:9 and can wholeheartedly recommend it.

I previously had a 48" rear-projection Philips and found that I could never get a sharp picture as the convergence was never 100% (nowhere near as sharp as a plasma) and the viewing angle had to be within 15 degrees from head-on.. oh, and the contrast was never that good (ie. black is not truly black)

If you can stretch to a Plasma, go for it -- you'll never go back to a projected image again.

However, given the choice of a 50" Rear-proj and a 36" CRT, I'd go for the rear-projection.



[Edited by DavidBrown - 12/18/2001 1:32:01 PM]

Adam M

well m projected image is 11ft across david as you have seen. I cant imagine a measily 50 inches would feel big enough regardless of picture quality.

ianc

Hi,

I've got the Tosh 4:3 43". Used to love rear projection sets but the viewing angle and lack of brightness put me off. The toshiba was the first that made me think again. Really bright picture, fine at any angle, and just great for GT3

RRP is about 2k for this set (inc stand) but shop around, I paid just over £1500 through a scottish power store including a stand (normally £200 extra!) and a 5yr warranty (which I get the cost of back if unused, further saving) - just haggle hard!

One nice thing is the addition of a decent built in subwoofer. I have a full dolby stereo setup and seperate Yamaha Sub but you don't want everything on just to watch "normal" TV, so the speakers n sub built in are good enough to turn up without switching to "neighbourwake" mode

Don't know about the 50" but I read somewhere that the 61" was too big for any output, could not get a image clear enough for the size of pixels etc, only good if you are putting it in the village hall etc. 43" is just enough

Have to say fully recommend it.

Hope that helps, any questions feel free to email me.

Ian.

DavidBrown

Ian, you're only a few miles away.. you're more than welcome to come checkout my setup

ianc

err...no thanks...do you want to come out of the closet?

IMHO (and this *really* is an opinion so put down your flamethrowers please) the plasma's suffer a little on turning pixels "off" so fast moving objects always leave quite a heavy blur.

That put me off them, that and the price! :-D

Projectors are great for the "huge" image but give you a headache, can't be used all the time and the fans are always bloody noisy.

Going back to rear project vs CRT - I looked at the largest CRT Tosh (37") and it was like a goldfish bowl, huge beast that you could see your face upside down in! My vote is rear projection, and 4:3 format - more screen for your buck!

Just my tuppence.

Ian

father_jack

Projector every time for me Sony VPL-CS10.
Plasma is better quality but expensive and 42'' ain't that much.
A proper screen and a good s-video cable helps the projectors along nicely.
There's no such thing as convergance on a modern DLP projector only on those huge ones you get in pubs which need to be calibrated everytime you fart.
You could claim a plasma or a projector as an expense if you're working that way too - I did

DavidBrown

To Ianc:

Not so.. the modern Plasmas run at 100Hz so you don't get that trail/blur effect (not confusing it with old style LCDs are you ?)

The invite had no ulterior motives, just an attempt to cure your ignorance of Plasmas

Don't you need a darkened room for projectors ? Not ideal for casual TV watching.


[Edited by DavidBrown - 12/18/2001 1:57:31 PM]

DavidBrown

Hmm. Bizarrely, my post after IanC's first has disappeared. Weird.

ianc

Nah, twas a year or so since I looked closely at plasma's, maybe they have improved. I've heard they need "regassing" every couple of years tho - truth or myth I know not.

Still got the cost issue tho - rear projection 43" £1500, plasma 43" - second mortgage.

With you on projectors tho, no good for daylight TV.

Ian

DavidBrown

Pioneer claim that their 503HDE has a life of 8yrs (assuming 8 hours a day, 7 days a week) before it's quality fades.

Also, modern plasmas like the above don't require cooling fans.

A 42" 16:9 plasma can be bought for around £2500

ianc

<shudder> 16:9 :-)

42" 16:9 is not as much screen as 43" 4:3.

By definition the shallower the angle the shorter the diagonal viewing is. A 42" 16:9 would be about the same width as my 43" 4:3 but half the height.

(and when it comes to big TV's, in my opinion, size matters)

Ian.

fast bloke

have a sony 50inch rear projection - plasma looks better, but not as much better as the price is higher. You can't see the pic in direct sunlight, but you can't really with any type of TV. PS2 and full 5.1 sound are the biz (Couldn't get a bigger TV in. The room is only 9ft by 9ft)

JoeyDeacon

Another question, is it actually worth going for a widescreen TV?? I only watch telly through Sky Digital, do they transmit in widescreen or am I going to get p!ssed off with the black bars at the edges of the screen.

father_jack

Yeah projectors not much use for daytime telly, but I only really watch DVDs or PS2 on the projector. Watching TV is for the proletariat
I've got a £250 Tesco widescreen job for that.

JoeyDeacon

I was thinking about getting a Sony KV36FS70(S) and the best price I can find it for is £1800. Is this the best 36 inch widescreen for the money or is there something better out there?

DavidBrown

-- > "By definition the shallower the angle the shorter the diagonal viewing is. A 42" 16:9 would be about the same width as my 43" 4:3 but half the height."

Agreed, although the maths is slightly suspect. (a 42" 16:9 = 37" x 21" against a 43" 4:3 = 34" x 26" ie. the 16:9 is 3 inches wider and 5" inches shorter - not 13")

My 50" 16:9 is about 2" shorter than the 48" 4:3, but it's good 6" wider.

Don't forget, 16:9 have the advantage of being able to handle anamorphic DVD output (it's that old quality over quanity argument again)

I fought valiantly against 16:9 preferring 4:3 until such time as I could get a 16:9 that had a similar vertical height as a 48" 4:3

(Also, GranTourismo3 looks pretty sweet in side-by-side split screen on a 16:9 )

--> "Another question, is it actually worth going for a widescreen TV?? "

Sky do transmit in widescreen, yes. And don't forget the argument about anamorphic DVD playback on 16:9.

If you're going for a small 16:9 (32" say) then I'd say spend the same money on a 4:3 and the same width but more height and put up with the bars.

Adam M, I do find it odd that with all your top quality processors/amps + speakers that you prefer quantity over quality in your TV, normally the preserve of the "pub talk" types.

[Edited by DavidBrown - 12/18/2001 2:49:50 PM]

logiclee

I started with a 41" 4X3 Sony RP about four years ago. Never realy got the convergence spot on and viewing angles were not great.
Decided due to DVD 2.35:1 being too small to go for the 46" Widescreen Toshiba 46WH08B, I can get the convergence more or less spot on and the viewing angles are in a different league. Picture stability is also a lot better as the Tosh is a 100hz set.

Great deal at hi-spek at the moment its only £1900 with stand and five year warranty.

The Sony I gave to my mother and the green gun failed, total cost of repair £1420 . As luck would have it I was paying insurance cover for it and they have replaced it with the Toshiba 43VJ model, viewing angles are again better than the old Sony but being a 50hz set there is still visible flicker at times.

IMO if your getting a large tv for Home Cinema use its got to be Widescreen. Would only consider 4x3 if you are not bothered with DVD's and mainly watch broadcasted TV.

Cheers
Lee

Shaun

I have been going through this issue for the past 4 months, and in my opinion NOTHING can beat the clarity of a conventional CRT.

If you look on the net at all the home cinema BBS's you will find LOADS of people having problems with rear projection TV's. Issues of convergance, screen burn, image artifacts etc etc etc, it has all put me right off. The new LCD screens seem to be the way forward, but the technology is not quite right at the moment (similar clarity to a Plasma but at half the price).

I think I will stick with my 33" Toshiba 4:3 TV until something really comes out that is worth my mulla!!!!

dsmith

Never realised my 32" Sony Widescreen was so small

Dave T-S

David (Brown)
We are about to search for a 42" plasma in the forthcoming sales, tell me where I can get one for £2500 please!!!??

The Zohan

Dave T-S
Just checked with a supplier (GBI) of ours
Cheapest 42" plasma is a Daewoo @ £ 2895.00 in.lncl speakers and wall mount + VAT

Thats price to us as a re-seller

any help?

Just read through the rest of this thread, my comments
LCD DLP projectors are fine although the power output is a little weak, usually around 1100 lumens (peak white @ screen centre), no good in a well lit room. We have two 2800w LCDs at work - still OK in low light levels but do appear to fade in 'normal' light levels. 4K lumens is a good starting point although it's gonna cost - also bulb life is anything between 500-1000 hours @ £ 380- £ 800 a shot.
Plasma 'tube' life used to be an issue a few years back, now seems to be sorted

You should not get any convergence problems with any LCC projector as it just had the one 'chip/panel' not three to line up. CRT three gun/chip projectors are a nightmare convergence wise and usually require re-convergence when swapping inputs, say graphics to video.

Viewing angles (or lack of) are usually a problem with rear projection cabs.



Paul

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 12/18/2001 6:11:12 PM]

DavidBrown

Dave-TS, checkout:

http://www.ivojo.co.uk/plasma.htm
http://www1.myriad-av.co.uk/acatalog/Home_Plasma_Display_Screen___Monitor_15.html
http://www.av-sales.com/plasma/html/plasma_screens_by_price.html
http://www.dabs.com

You'll probably need to call each company, as prices on these things change daily. The site I bought my 50" from originally had it advertised at the out-of-date price of £12,500

Shaun, I genuinely don't believe a normal CRT TV is as crystal clear as a plasma. You know where I live.. and I'll spank you at Halo too while I'm at it



[Edited by DavidBrown - 12/18/2001 7:29:19 PM]

db

I've got the Sony KP44PS2, this is a rear projector and has just won loads of awards in all the mags. It is the bollox.

I spent months researching TV's for my home cinema setup, and the choice boiled down to Sony or Tosh. There is not much between them.

I plumped for the Sony because it has auto convergance, which works extemely well and has active picture in picture so you can watch two channels at one also, it is the best looking TV.

No noise from fans, that's rubish. Picture quality is excellent, if you only watch through Sky digital then wide screen is the way to go, if programs are not broadcast in widescreen the TV adjusts and you do not get any wide black bars. I only watch TV through the digibox set to RGB, it is the bollox, superb picture with absouetly no twiddling with the standard setting other han turning the contrast down from the default setting.

PS2 games with a BIG screen are the bollox, nothing comes close.

Same for DVD's. It's a whole new experince from SMALL 36" sets.

I bought an extended warranty with the TV which covers me for three years, on site service by Sony engineers etc etc, so no worroes about blown bulbs are failed guns or anything. Not that I expect that to happen.

If I had tons of cash, then a top quality plasma screen is the way to go, but I would not buy one for less than £6K as these are mainly budget plasma sets.

RP TV's typically cost up to £3K and are top of the range.

So, Tosh or Sony, you can't go wrong, don't listen to all the twaddle about how unreliable they are, if they were that bad they would not sell as well as they do.

Anyway, Arsenal are on TV, so I'm off. Let me know if you have any questions.

db

[Edited by db - 12/18/2001 8:18:23 PM]

Dave T-S

David/Paul
Thanks, i'll get searching.....

jimbob2

It is perhaps worth bearing in mind that plasma screens are really in their formative years. The cheap ones at the moment are models from a couple years back.

Plasma screens fade over time - the one we used at work started going after about six months - really noticable.

As far as I can see, and I've seen a lot of screens and projectors, picture quality, in ascending order goes something like:

Rear projetcion
LCD projection
CRT projection
Plasma
DLP projection
CRT

At the moment, there is absolutely no competition. If you have a huge lounge, then get a projector - getting a massive plasma or rear projection will take up a lot of space, and if you don't want to see it's inadeqeicies, you'll have to sit miles away - might as well go with the new Toshiba 36" Picture Frame CRT - it is one of the best pictures you can buy.

Spend the money you save on decent AV gear as I have - Denon 3802 AV amp, Denon DVD 2800, Mission 780s with the full 7.1 speaker system (more speakers tahn you could poke with a short stick)
j

Shaolin

Cant be arsed to read all these posts,so dont know if this has already been said, but im pretty sure that playing Ps2 on Projection TV's can damage them, things that are always on screen i.e. scores etc can burn themselves permanently onto the screen.
Not 100% on this,but i think its true???

fast bloke

Entirely untrue. You can't burn a projection screen. You can burn a CRT screen thought

ianc

I heard this too, but then had the same in an instruction book to a Panasonic 21" CRT. Officially the TV manufacturers don't seem to like consoles etc, always warn against them. I had the tube replaced three times in that set cos I could generate (with a SNES of all things) a plain red screen that proved the shadow mask was out, lovely orange sunburst on it, still to their credit they kept trying tubes till I was happy )

I have run a Tosh RP for over a year now, probably has games on it more often than TV and I have not seen any ghosting or burned on scores etc appearing. I guess if you turned up the brightness \ contrast to the max and left it paused for a few hours you may be able to do some damage, but I ain't gonna try it!

As a side issue, if it's static "always there" images that burn, what about C5 \ Sky one logo's that are always in the corner? Never had them appearing either.

1p's worth.

IC

DavidBrown

You're wrong jimbob. It goes like this:

Rear projetcion
CRT projection
LCD projection
DLP projection
CRT
LCD
Plasma

(Assuming you can get hi-res LCD/Plasma ie. 720p)

There's a lot of BS on here, based on views of technology seen 6 months ago.

PLasma advantages:

1. Digital Convergence
2. High-resolution data display, most are compatible with DTV/HDTV.
3. Flat means no optics means, which means no image distortion, even at edges and corners.
4. No projection "throw distance" limitations
5. High ambient light tolerance
6. Completely digital
7. Unaffected by magnetism
8. Extremely bright, for clear display in any light

Plasma vs. CRT

1. Clearer and sharper picture from edge-to-edge
2. Uniform brightness on any area of the screen
3. flicker-free images (100hz)
4. consume less power


Plasma vs. LCD

1. Brighter picture
2. Wider viewing angle
3. Better color purity
4. Higher contrast ratio

Anywho, I'm tired of trying to convince you muppets

[Edited by DavidBrown - 12/19/2001 11:08:19 AM]