NotoriousREV

Assume you work for "Company 1" who has a contract with "Company 2" for certain services. After several years of this, Company 2 decides to bring the services Company 1 provides in-house and off-shore the lot.

Company 1 then starts to talk about TUPE and saying that your job is not being made redundant. Does this mean that your job is being transferred to Company 2 and, given that they are off-shoring the work, if you refuse to go and work in their eastern European sweat-shop for 25% of your previous wage does this mean you have to resign?

judgejules

If they TUPE the employees from Company 1 to Company 2 your cotranct from Company 1 stands. Any breach of the contract from Company 1 by Company 2 is grounds for you to resign and take them to the cleaners for breach of contract. If Company 2 wants to change your contract from Company 1 during TUPE, that is also grounds for you to resign and take them to the cleaners. Basically if they have transfered the employees from Company 1 to Company 2 then your contract and benefits remain. If not then Company 1 would have technically laid you off and Company 2 would have re-employed you (you would have been told this), in which case you could take Company 1 to the cleaners.

Clear as mud

lpski1

That scenario happened to me last October, except it wasnt theoretical.

Company 1 lost the contract, Company2 hired a new company to provide the resources. Company 2 TUPE'd me across but was offshoring it to Bratislava amongst other countries therefore not requiring me/us and made us redundant! Thankfully i had a lovely package and didnt mind taking it, and then was re-employed by a different arm of Company2 as a contractor for a shed load more than i had been earning Happy Days and im still contracting for them and about to renew for another year. (if i like the hourly increase)

///\oo/\\\

TUPE regs have changed recently, but generally under TUPE company 2 adopts your contract of employment with company 1 without amendment.

If your contract with company 1 provides for you to work off shore and you refuse then you may be deemed to be in breach of contract

If it doesn't, company 2 has to obtain your agreement to a change of contractual terms.

Check your existing contract, I doubt it provides for a change in country of work on a full time basis and company 2 will probably have to make you redundant.

Check the regs in detail though - they used to be fairly simple and pro employee. They are now more complicated and more pro employer in some respects.

NotoriousREV

OK, I have more details on this theoretical situation:

The jobs in question are to be TUPE'd from Company 1 to Company 2 and the jobs are being moved to the Eastern Bloc so anyone doing the job in the UK will be made redundant by Company 2. However (and this is the weird bit for me), all pay, including final pay, retention bonuses etc, will still be paid by Company 1 (but only if all employees agree). What is the point? Is there something dodgy going on here? Surely if the jobs are being moved within the same company but to another country, then strictly speaking they aren't redundant and it's constructive dismissal?

///\oo/\\\

Difficult one without seeing the "theoretical" contract of employment. If the jobs in the UK are going, then yes, the jobs are redundant.

Does anyone involved actually want to go to work in the Eastern Block?

If they are looking for all employees to agree, then they may well be angling for the voluntary redundancy due to relocation type route.

Company 1 paying it is not, in itself, wierd - no doubt simply part of the agreement between company 1 & company 2 and quite normal practice. As long as you recieve whats due, doesn't matter who pays.

If the contracts require you to work in other countries, then you may be able to argue the constructive dismissal route, but if you do this be careful that you could be looking at statutory payments only (£310 per week gross, 1 week for every year worked, etc) rather than discretionary payments which tend to be much higher. You MAY win, and be awarded more, but you generally end up worse off anyway.

If the contracts of employment say you'll be based in the uk - then the jobs here are redundant. Simplified, but you get the gist.

How many employees are involved? There are statutory consultation periods depending on the number of employees involved.

have a look here

http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/emp..._of_provisions

for more on this