tonybooth

Our office Xmas meal was at best average. We booked into a place in Leeds City Centre.

Starters and desserts were eventually brought to the tables by waiting staff but the main course was a carvery job i.e. DIY

We paid deposit in advance by CC and gave authority to debit for final balance 2 weeks before we went. They never processed the final payment for some reason and so put it through the machine (manually) on the night.

Now credit card statement has turned up and the swines have added a 10% service charge. This was never discussed and never appeared in the booking conditions.

I thought that even for larger group service charges were always discretionary anyway?

Just want to check my facts and your experiences before I go on a mission to get my £60 back!!

T

pslewis

Demand your Service Charge back ...... claim that there was no service and at the very best the service was sub-standard!!

State that the group will be taking the matter through the Smalls Claims Court and they can explain themselves there - £60 is worth fighting for.

Get a summons out ...... they WILL return the money, the bad publicity is not worth £60 to them.

First give them a chance to return the money, say 5 working days - then you can show the court that you acted reasonably and offered them time to avoid court action.

Do NOT be fobbed off by any small print - you did not get service, why pay for it?

I HATE this trick of Service Charges!!!

marky1

You find in most restaurants that for tables of 6 or more, the service charge is mandatory.

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

Ring your CC co & place the £60 under protest.

D

pslewis

Nothing in life is mandatory except Death and Taxes ....... the rest is up for discussion!

Putting the £60 under protest is sound advice

pslewis

Just found this:-

"VAT & Service charges
VAT must be included in the price. You should never therefore have VAT as a separate item on your bill. If a percentage charge for service is said to be included in the meal price you are entitled to reduce the bill if the service has been poor. You are entitled to reduce it by the amount shown to be the service charge. If it is not specified, anything up to 15% would be acceptable"

and

"Many restaurants leave credit card slips 'open' next to the space marked "gratuity" so that you can leave a tip on the credit card. Some restaurants continue to do this even though they have already charged a service charge within the bill. This may suggest that the service charge was not going to the waiting staff at all and you may want to ask the Manager if this is the case. To avoid abuse of the credit card you should strike out the empty space and fill the total.

If extra amounts are added afterwards this will be 'unauthorised debit' and you should refuse to pay. You should check your statements carefully and keep the copy of the signed slip at least until the amount appears on your statement. You can then have evidence to put to the credit card company if a dispute arises"

Scooby Soon!

I would actually like to know the facts on this if anyone can dig them up, I have refused to pay for a meal several times (but not the drinks) but I would like to know the real deal about this service charge add on.

If service is crap they deserve nothing!

ChefDude

they're quite often 12.5% in town.

it tends to be optional except for large groups.

bear in mind that staff wages are low taking into account expected gratuities.

Curse of the Rushing Gimp

Can i ask why u didn't tip the staff at all?

Reminds me of the National Lampoons xmas vacation when the mean old boss doesn't give clark griswald his xmas bonus. Two words spring to mind- Tight and Fisted. No wonder they stuck 10% on Scrooges credit card.

tonybooth

Cos the service was 5hite that's why and hence the whole reason for the post - DOH!

Just typing a letter to them now.......

Cheers

T

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I would check the terms and conditions for the restaurant - it may be on the menu - but most places add a mandatory service charge for parties over a certain size. It may be the case at this venue, unless it was Maccy Ds

Matteeboy

I'm suprised no one has blamed New Labour for the state of our tipping system yet....

What I HATE is when they stick a charge on THEN leave a gap for a further tip when you go to pay by CC.

Double tip? Nope. Not unless served by a half naked Heather Graham.

mannyo

The place where we had our xmas dinner added 10% for parties of six or more, but we knew about it before we went as it was on the menu

orbix

I find the "tipping" thing a joke. I do tip though.
As far as I am aware you don't have to pay for service and if your not happy don't pay anything.
If I receive good service then I want to tip that person, not the company!
I might not be right but I've heard that a restaurant is taxed on expected tips.

StickyMicky

i would not tip in a cavery TBH

restaurants fine
taxis fine
takeaway drivers fine

cavery, nahh i dont think so ?

tipped a waiter £20 once when i was pissed

Freak

This is why I love eating in the US.... the staff know that if they are crap, they get no tip, and as they are all at minimum wage and depend on tips, it makes the service for the most part very good.

If they did it there and then on the night, how did they authorise the extra without your pin code?
Did you leave nothing at all as a tip?

pslewis

That had more to do with the fact that you thought he had a nice ****!!

marky1

Actually that's not true. Many restaurants have written on the menu that "for parties of x or more a mandatory service charge of x % is added to your bill" If that is the case then it's not optional as by reading the menu and ordering the food you are accepting their terms and thereby entering into a contract. If you have less than x people then yes, you can tell them you don't want to pay it.

pslewis

I still think that it depends whether you actually receive Service or not - or, indeed, what standard that Service is!!

A Court Summons will quickly make them see sense!

Tidgy

if you realy wanna put the cat amongst the pigeons then you can accuse them of fraud, if the total you signed for wasn't what apeared on the credit card bill, aka the bill was more, then they have achieved money by fraud.

i believe this is punishable by fines and possibly even prison for the parties involved. plus they will loose there credit card machine, which for a restuarant is about the worst thing that could happen.

pslewis

Either way the Service Charge should be returned!

tonybooth

Extract: -

"Further to your letter to xxx dated 12th January 2007, I would like to raise the following points: -

1) We authorised you take the final balance payment two weeks prior to the party as per the original agreement. I do not know why this was not actioned in advance of our arrival as this would have saved embarrassment on both sides.
2) The final payment was manually entered into your PDQ machine at 23.07 hours on the night of the party and no bill was presented to us by any member of your staff.
3) A 10% service charge was added to our bill without our knowledge. Had we received service worthy of a 10% service charge, especially in light of the main course being a carvery and the small issue of us not being privy to its existence, we may well have agreed to it

In light of this, could you kindly arrange for the (not so) discretionary service charge of £57.85 to be credited to the credit card from which it was originally debited."

EddScott

Only once have i ever felt the need to complain about a meal. And that was a mixture of poor service and poor food presentation compared to the price of the meal.

As for tipping. I will usually give 10% but if they mess it up they get nowt. Say if they forget to ask you if you want desert or take forever to clear your plates that kind of thing loses them the tip.


"Whadaya mean, he don't tip"

Scooby Soon!

Straight and to the point, perfect.

I would add that they should do it with in 7 days, otherwise you will contact the card issuer and issue a CNP complaint and they will lose the whole amount

They should know about CNP and if they dont it will be in there card manual and T+C's

Luan Pra bang

A compulsory service charge should be stated on the menu or at least discussed when booking . Most places will say 10% for parties of X or more. if it was added on the night do you mean that it was done without the pin number. If so phone up ask for a refund and fax your receipt to show that extra has been added. I very much doubt they will argue the toss unless it states on the menu that there is a service charge added. In which case you will have to explain why the service was bad and why you never mentioned it at the time. If you a rude and hostile about it they will see no benefit to give you a refund without a fight as they know that you will never go back anyway. If your only gripe is waiting then remember that to cook fresh food for a large group of people is hard to do especially in December when its very busy. 20 minutes wait for starters would be considerd acceptable.

tonybooth

Yes it would - Over 80 though is taking the pi55

powerman1

the small print at the bottom of the bill will state that a 10% service charge will be added to the bill and if you dont want to pay it you should cross it out,
These restaurants are not daft and rely on this not been noticed.

cw42

iTrader: (1)

JOE
I'll take care of this, you guys
leave the tip.
(to Mr. White)
And when I come back, I want my
book back.

MR. WHITE
Sorry, it's my book now.

JOE
Blonde, shoot this piece of ****,
will ya?

Mr. Blonde shoots Mr. White with his finger. Mr White
acts shot. Joe exits.

NICE GUY EDDIE
Okay, everybody cough up green for
the little lady.

Everybody whips out a buck, and throws it on the table.
Everybody, that is, except Mr. White.

NICE GUY EDDIE
C'mon, throw in a buck.

MR. WHITE
Uh-uh. I don't tip.

NICE GUY EDDIE
Whaddaya mean you don't tip?

MR. WHITE
I don't believe in it.

NICE GUY EDDIE
You don't believe in tipping?

MR. PINK
(laughing)
I love this kid, he's a madman,
this guy.

MR. BLONDE
Do you have any idea what these
ladies make? They make ****.

MR. WHITE
Don't give me that. She don't
make enough money, she can quit.

Everybody laughs.

NICE GUY EDDIE
I don't even know a Jew who'd have
the ***** to say that. So let's
get this straight. You never ever
tip?

MR. WHITE
I don't tip because society says I
gotta. I tip when somebody
deserves a tip. When somebody
really puts forth an effort, they
deserve a little something extra.
But this tipping automatically,
that ****'s for the birds. As far
as I'm concerned, they're just
doin their job.

MR. BLUE
Our girl was nice.

MR. WHITE
Our girl was okay. She didn't do
anything special.

MR. BLONDE
What's something special, take ya
in the kitchen and suck your dick?

They all laugh.

NICE GUY EDDIE
I'd go over twelve percent for
that.

MR. WRITE
Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've
been here a long ****in time, and
she's only filled my cup three
times. When I order coffee, I
want it filled six times.

MR. BLONDE
What if she's too busy?

MR. WHITE
The words "too busy" shouldn't be
in a waitress's vocabulary.

NICE GUY EDDIE
Excuse me, Mr. White, but the last
thing you need is another cup of
coffee.

They all laugh.

MR. WHITE
These ladies aren't starvin to
death. They make minimum wage.
When I worked for minimum wage, I
wasn't lucky enough to have a job
that society deemed tipworthy.

NICE GUY EDDIE
Ahh, now we're getting down to it.
It's not just that he's a cheap
*******--

MR. ORANGE
--It is that too--

NICE GUY EDDIE
--It is that too. But it's also
he couldn't get a waiter job. You
talk like a pissed off dishwasher:
"**** those ****s and their
****ing tips."

MR. BLONDE
So you don't care that they're
counting on your tip to live?

Mr. White rubs two of his fingers together.

MR. WHITE
Do you know what this is? It's
the world's smallest violin,
playing just for the waitresses.

MR. BLONDE
You don't have any idea what
you're talking about. These
people bust their ***. This
is a hard job.

MR. WHITE
So's working at McDonald's, but
you don't feel the need to tip
them. They're servin ya food, you
should tip em. But no, society
says tip these guys over here, but
not those guys over there. That's
bull****.

MR. ORANGE
They work harder than the kids at
McDonald's.

MR. WHITE
Oh yeah, I don't see them cleaning
fryers.

MR. BROWN
These people are taxed on the tips
they make. When you stiff 'em,
you cost them money.

MR. BLONDE
Waitressing is the number one
occupation for female non-college
graduates in this country. It's
the one jab basically any woman
can get, and make a living on.
The reason is because of tips.

MR. WHITE
**** all that.

They all laugh.

MR. WHITE
Hey, I'm very sorry that the
government taxes their tips.
That's ****ed up. But that ain't
my fault. it would appear that
waitresses are just one of the
many groups the government ****s
in the *** on a regular basis.
You show me a paper says the
government shouldn't do that, I'll
sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll
vote for it. But what I won't do
is play ball. And this non-
college bull**** you're telling
me, I got two words for that:
"Learn to ****in type." Cause if
you're expecting me to help out
with the rent, you're in for a big
****in surprise.

MR. ORANGE
He's convinced me. Give me my
dollar back.

Everybody laughs. Joe's comes back to the table.

JOE
Okay ramblers, let's get to
rambling. Wait a minute, who
didn't throw in?

MR. ORANGE
Mr. White.

JOE
(to Mr. Orange)
Mr. White?
(to Mr. White)
Why?

MR. ORANGE
He don't tip.

JOE
(to Mr. Orange)
He don't tip?
(to Mr. White)
You don't tip? Why?

MR. ORANGE
He don't believe in it.

JOE
(to Mr. Orange)
He don't believe in it?
(to Mr. White)
You don't believe in it?

MR. ORANGE
Nope.

JOE
(to Mr. Orange)
Shut up!
(to Mr. White)
Cough up the buck, ya cheap
*******, I paid for your goddamn
breakfast.

MR. WHITE
Because you paid for the
breakfast, I'm gonna tip.
Normally I wouldn't.

JOE
Whatever. Just throw in your
dollar, and let's move.
(to Mr. Blonde)
See what I'm dealing with here.
Infants. I'm ****in dealin with
infants.

The eight men get up to leave. Mr. White's waist is in
the F.G. As he buttons his coat, for a second we see he's
carrying a gun. They exit Uncle Bob's Pancake House,
talking amongst themselves.

mart360

Why do they ad 10% for parties of 6 or more?

5 people dont pay a service charge, so why should 6

if they serve 60 people in an evening, thats 60 people regardless of whether they came in 2's 5's or 10's

the bill generated by 20 people say should more than cover and need to service charge, which should be discetionary btw


mart

Luan Pra bang

Larger tables are a pain in the **** and often don't tip thats why. Serving 60 people in 4's and 5's is totally different to serving 6 tables of ten.