pslewis

WTF????????????????

What dignity did they offer to the women and children they tortured and murdered??

Lets STOP this **** about dignity and rights and PC speak about those who deserve NOTHING!!

Big discussion on how they were executed and was it correct and were the boiler suits the right foooookin colour!!

Abdabz

Absoloutely... Drop the pc bollox... I didnt see any Iraqi losing their head over the matter...
How do you correctly execute someone? Where's the book on how to do it with dignity? Throwing them in a large lobster pan and boiling them alive would have been more dignified than those people deserved...
F@ck 'em...

David Lock

But the next step on your argument is that they should be tortured to death in the same way as they treated their victims. Kind of mob rule and that won't help anyone.

I don't even support the death penalty but find it hard to object in these cases.

Edcase

Apart from one of the guys who got hanged. Interesting that they chose the long rope technique for these and the short rope for Saddam?

Long rope (naturally) has a greater risk of decapitation, as was proven in this case.

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

It might help the families of the murdered get over it. I know if someone tortured one of my friends/family to death then i'd want the same thing to happen to them. I don't think it's fair if they just get a needle that sends them to sleep.

KiwiGTI

There is a book the British wrote on the subject, the book/table of drops I believe it is called and it was published by the Home Office - and officially still in use in some countries eg: Singapore.

It's a table of a figures that allows the executioner to determine the exact length of rope etc so that the prisoner doesn't die from either prolonged asphyxiation (too short) or decapitation (too long)

mart360

You are indeed correct, but interestingly enough, Iraq prefers the use of the short drop, as opposed to the long drop, so why didnt saddam & co get the short drop?


Mart

Dieseldog

... so these monsters should get exactly the same treatment they metered out...

PSL, I'm putting you forward to dispatch Michael Barrymore

paulr

But isn't one of the objectives of the alliance to try and change the way Iraq does things,ie democracy,rule of law etc. Two wrongs dont make a right.

Fuzz

It'll probably turn up on Ogrish if it did.


Andy

Seamaster

so do you agree that Bush and Lonly Tony deserve the same? They are just as responsible for the death of thousands.


get real and concentrate on the real issues.

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

They did video it (or so I read earlier), they showed it to the reporters.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

What concerns me, is that this is being reported on the news, my seven year old was watching earlier and was most impressed that his head had come off, why cant they just quietly and mysteriously despatch the evil *******s and not report the gruesome details ?

Its made me feel queasy, its put me right of pulling the head off it tonight.....

PeteBrant

Spot on.

2000TLondon

It's important to look at the bigger picture.......

We can't try and make the world a better place to live with democracy, freedom, and civilized cultures, by acting in barbaric, inhumane ways ourselves.

We have to lead by example, and with even-handed consistency.

IMO if the new Iraqi government had shown restraint, it would have been much better for everyone in the long run. At the end of the day, what these executions have achieved is "justice" in the eyes of a few, for the deaths of several hundred people. Using restraint and humanity may well have saved the lives of several hundred thousand people in the future by increasing stability and security in the country, which should be the ultimate priority.

r32

Spot on, its not about what they did. Its about showing that the Authorities can act in a dignified and correct manner. If they stoop to the same level as thie customers then they wont gain any respect.

The Zohan

For once i agree with you Pete but do not tell anyone

David Lock

Just imagine if a British Regiment had been charged with carrying out these executions. You would expect them to do it efficiently and properly.

If they had proceeded to mess it up as seems to have happened you would have been disappointed with them because the proper "standards" would have slipped. There is a right way to do these things and a wrong way. The right way sets the standards that others should learn by.

The Zohan

Really it was up to the Iraqi's how they disposed of them, theirs and their business alone. the west imposing its ideas and so called standards is not necessarily the way to go!

Face it Iraq is a prime example of this already and as for 'us' leading by example, we take on Saddam but leave other countries (with little or no weath or resourses that we want) with genocidal leaders and governments, etc alone so the killing of innocents can continue unabated - we are hypocritial at best and turning a blind eye at worse!

We do not set a good example!


As for standards, have a look around the Middle East, it really is a differenet world - i was only out there for 8 months but learned a small bit about the customs and culture whilst there.

Have a look at this for insantance
YouTube - Saudi Government-Appointed Executioner (english subtitles)

Interesting watch in a Saudi executioner, interviewd about his work.

PeteBrant

Bit late for that, really!

The Zohan

No, not really they did get on with it, their way and if you really think that they give a damn then i think you may be wrong, it is some political posturing.

They had an ENG crew there to film and showed the footage to assembled journos.

TBH i just do not care, these where evil people and disposed of by the government of Iraq.

Job done.

As i said the ME is not Europe, not even close!

Leslie

What PSL said is absolutely right. These monsters deserved no mercy as far as the death penalty is concerned, there is no doubt whatsoever about their guilt either. What compassion did they show to their thousands of victims who were dreadfully tortured before their deaths. What mercy does a person deserve when he causes an entire village to be murdered with nerve gas? How about those who were killed slowly and painfully by being fed feet first into a giant shredding machine. Don't forget the prisoners who were used to taste SH's food for poison and were then shot in the head afterwards?

I reckon they were fortunate to have a swift execution which was richly deserved and who can blame those who shouted insults after what they did to their loved ones!

Les

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I guess as a Christian you are more traditional and swayed by the retribution found in the Old Testament rather than the compassion and forgiveness of the New Testament. What was it again, "Let he who is without blemish cast the first stone"?

Holy Ghost

**

quite agree.

and if he'd been tried at the hague, the trial would go on and on and on and on and he'd have died unjudged like milosevic. they dealt with it their way and settled the score. for people to bleat about the tawdry execution [aren't they all?] of a seriously nasty man when so many others have already died since 2003 in worse ways is pretty odd.

would there be such an outcry if this was pinochet in the noose? i doubt it. politically motivated bubbles & bollocks from the usual suspects.

your point paul about selective regime change is bang on. if you're cleaning out a house, you do every room top to bottom - not just ones where visitors may go. but that's a whole different bag of snakes.

Leslie

I am well acquainted with the examples you quote Rannoch.

In my defence I rush to inform you that up to now I have never felt the need to torture or put anyone to a lingering and painful death and don't anticipate ever intending to do so!

No one in this world is without blemish of course, that is wholly accepted in the Christian Faith. It is all a matter of degree and the State of course is deemed to have the power of the sword. Forgiveness for genuine contrition is also a Christian precept as I am sure you will know.

Les

andythejock01wrx

I agree with Pete entirely (but folks, let's not lose* our heads).

Ok, the Iraqi Govt officials were somewhat incompetent in getting the length of the rope wrong. However, he did not suffer a slow agonising death as many of his victims did.

I think as we moralise we forget we are trying to impose our values on an Arab country which was subjected to the tyranny of the Saddam regime for 20 years (even if the murdering despot did make a better job of keeping the place under control !).

* - "loose" to most Snet members

Holy Ghost

**

as an athiest, i'm happy with just desserts, me. wherever necessary.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Not so sure about the slow agonising death bit

When the french used the guillotine a Dr researched how long the victim stayed 'aware' after decapitation and asked the condemned if they would blink as many times as they could after decapitation... I read that one person blinked 14 times afterwards.

So, given that: it would seem reasonable to assume that when his head got ripped off he would've been aware of flying through the air without a body attached and hitting the ground... then being able to hear people shouting out as he slowly faded out...

Gruesome picture hey?

This lends some credence: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_262.html

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I think you will find that Jesus did not require contrition to turn the other cheek and forgive. "Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do".

Somewhat at odds with "monsters" who should be shown "no mercy".

I only say this as I find it at odds with your beliefs as expressed elsewhere.

Rannoch