scoobynutta555

According to this mornings paper from today a trial in Luton by police officers allows them to fingerprint motorists at the roadside and compare the prints with the national database within minutes. Apparently police have to ask motorists permission for now, but the Home office reckons it could become compulsory if it's a 'success'. The trial will be rolled out to other areas including the MET.

What the article does not say is if the taken prints are stored onto the national database. If there is not the facility now to do this then as sure as eggs are eggs then it will become possible.

Another step into the police state, not towards it.

r32

They will be stored and retained, just like the DNA database.
Would you agree?
I wouldnt.

Freak

Scary

I would lay bets they store them- nothing to stop them is there?

scoobynutta555

Same as DNA was supposed to be destroyed if innocent etc etc. There WILL be a DNA and fingerprint register for the general population. Step by step we're a population controlled by the government and increasingly they are not accountable to the people.

PeteBrant

BBC NEWS | Technology | Police to fingerprint on streets

AT the moment the scheme is voluntary - i.e. you do not have to give fingerprints, and no data is recorded.

I'd like to know how they come by this figure of "60% of people stopped give false names". How on earth do they know? If the person stopped has no reason to be detained, say they were going a bit quick but not prosecutable or something, would the police follow it up? Course not. You can only say 60% of people give false names if you verify 100% of people stopped, and that certainly doesn't happen.

In addition to this, why on earth were made to have photo driving licenses, do they not give a bit of a clue as to whether the person is who they say they are?

The worse thing is the police then make out it is for our own benefit! Tossers.

No way am I consenting to fingerprinting, I have no reason to be on a national register

GrahamG

i will just refuse unless i am sure i have done somthing wrong!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I would suggest you spend some time in a country where you are controlled by the Government and they are not accountable to the people and I suspect you would see a significant difference to living in the UK.

We live in a democracy - you make your account every time you have an opportunity to vote.

With nothing to hide, why is it important whether your fingerprints are held or not? It is not the holding of the information that is the issue, it is the intent for its use.

Rannoch

SJ_Skyline

Rannoch,

I think the argument is that the government are perceived to be putting in place the mechanisms to enable control of the population, the taking of DNA and fingerprints being one of these. I no longer believe in "if you have nothing to hide..." as the laws behind this are constantly changing and I have no faith in the process behind it due to the various whitewash reports we have seen over the last few years exonerating the government of any blame.

stilover

According to the BBC radio news, if you refuse you could be arrested. So if you refuse to give your fingerprints at the side of the road, you get arrested, then they take your prints down the nick.

There getting kids to help too. WTF is that all about ?????

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Don't see any problems with it as it is now. They check against existing prints and if there is a problem it flags it up. The prints taken are not retained so as I see it everything is positive. It saves time and costs, the potential is to catch a criminal and if you are clean then you go on your way in a few minutes with no data stored.

Of course it could be taken further but you're just speculating then.

Shark Man

Being Luton...it's no wonder they thought of this (demographically)

Worrying though, as it harps back to the guilty 'til proved innocent lark. Still, if you have nothing to hide...

stilover

Do you really think they won't keep your prints ???

Suppose taking DNA from children in schools will be chucked out next week.

Blair & Brown won't be happy until they know where you are, what your doing, who your doing it with, how much your spending when doing it, while issuing fines for creeping 2mph over the speed limit thanks to the GPS data box installed in the boot of your car, while sending you a bill for every mile you dare to drive.

While they are looking at you, and writing fines and tax bills to you, your house is getting burgled, your wife/daughter is getting gang raped, or some scum is sticking a gun in your 8 year olds face for the keys to your car.

Jonno_johnson

Again we get some fools on here, who think its ok if you have nothing to hide, were does that give in mentality stop, man, the roll over and take it 90% of the uk jobsworths.

I know if i get stopped i wont be giving mine, in less than 50 years time im sure this country will be a police state/

scoobynutta555

True we live in a democracy of sorts, but if you take into account an unelected second house and a Monarchy, oh, and a government unelected by the majority of voters it sort of questions whether we have a true democracy or not.

Add to that a centrallisation of power for the executive and security services and an increasing presidential role of the prime ministers office. In any case, IMHO just because an elected government has a possile 5 year term, does not give it carte blanche to pass ream after ream of anti freedom legislation. Not to mention the expense and effectiveness of its original purpose. We are said to be one of the most monitored populations in the world, certainly in the West. The new powers may seem insignificant now, but could be abused by a future draconian government.

If never ceases to amuse me when someone trots out the oft quoted and ignorant phrase "I have nothing to hide so why not?"

And FWIW I have spent time in a communist controlled counrty.

SJ_Skyline

Lets see what's on the menu:

1. A database of everybody's DNA.
2. Biometric ID cards.
3. Records of every phone call, fax, e-mail and text message that's sent.
4. CCTV cameras in every town.
5. Satellite road charging keeping track of where every car is.
6. A national database of children.
7. Fingerprinting of drivers each time they are stopped.
8. 90 day detention without trial.
9. Control of what is advertised on TV and when.

When you put all this together it sure looks like a firm foundation for a police state to me!

(borrowed and edited from BBC HYS)

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I just stated that if the proposed method is applied and stuck to then it's a good idea. It's a good use on technology IMHO. I hate the idea of the police state that you highlight and I can see the potential to misuse the technology but I do like the idea in principle.

MJW

This is just the thin end of the wedge - if this pilot scheme goes through and the public accept it, it will only be a matter of time before a compulsory DNA database is introduced. The news article states that the fingerprint machine's accuracy is 94-95% but what if you fall in that last 5% and your fingerprint comes up as a match for a criminal's ?

Jonno_johnson

Well if all that above crap does come into effect, which it probably will living in this roll and take it society we now live in, i think it will be time to leave this little island.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I hope they provide you with a cleaning cloth to get the ink of your fingers before getting back in your car.

Also I don't think the nothing to hide bit is important here, with DNA and fingerprints on record there is a possibility to abuse the system, if a cop says he found your dna or fingerprints at a crime scene then how are you suppsed to prove your inocence? just suppose there was a party going on and someone got glassed and killed after you left, some low life could use the glass or bottle you used and plant it by the body, bang concrete evidence with both DNA and fingerprints!! wriggle out of that one!!!!

Nothing to hide so nothing to worry about is not an option when DNA and fingerprints are on record, we all know there are unscrupulous officials out there who would stop at nothing to get a conviction to keep the metrics up, and it would be down to you to contest the DNA evidence.

Anyone seen the film Gattica??? or however you spell it!

PeteBrant

Why not just produce your Photo driving license?

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Because I would presume they are using the check to cross reference with outstanding crimes where a fingerprint has been left. It could be used to solve an outstanding case where the persons identity is not known so photo ID would be useless. At least this is the way I understand it's to be used. If I've misunderstood then my points may be null and void

PeteBrant

No, the justification they are giving is that 6/10 people give false information. You do not need to take a finger print to prove you are who you say you are. Indeed, if you details are not on the database, then taking a fingerprint is a completely useless act - Unless of course you are going to store it.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

In that case then the only possible justification is as I've said. If this is the case as you've stated then I agree it can only be for other purposes.

Leslie

It is all part of the secret agenda isn't it UB. Becoming more apparent now though!

Les

scoobynutta555

They say it's for on the spot identification purposes, but I'd say the information will be stored, if not now, sometime in the future. After all, collected DNA went the same way didn't it? Also, I assume straight from the off the prints will be used for cold cases etc. May sound like a good thing in principle, but not if you're the one dragged off spending 90 days in a cell under terrorism charges if you're innocent. Think of a beefed up Walter Wolgang scenario, not that implausable.

Leslie

Quite right scoobynutta.

Les

r32

A policeman friend of mine says it WILL be stored, he says why bother to take if you dont keep it. He also feels that the 60% is not what he sees (as a Traffic Cop) and is being used to sell this to a dumb *** public.
Like they said DNA samples would not be stored yet at the beginning they all were.

TDT

The "official line":

PITO - Information Brief - Lantern

Hand held fingerprint machines launched - Metropolitan Police Service

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Arrested for not 'voluntarily' giving fingerprints - doesn't sound exactly voluntary to me! - Will it go on your record too?

TDT

Anyone refusing will be nicked under section 20 of PACE.....can't establish identity or address to ensure service of summons.

All IMHO of course........