Ortiz Shamrock, bit of a let down...
11 July 2006, 09:28 AM
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Ortiz Shamrock, bit of a let down...
Not sure what other peoples views of the fight were, but for what its worth, I think Herb Dean could have let it run quite safely for another 15 seconds at least, to see whether Shamrock could have started defending himself.
I cant stand Shamrock, and this Ortiz "victory" leaves it as unfinished business, and it gives Shamrock grounds for going on about how he wasnt hurt, and how he couldve turned it round, robbed a victory etc, so totally inconclusive.
Ortiz looked totally dominant, so I dont doubt the end result would have been the same, but it leaves a question mark, and another rematch, with those two talking it up again, felt lke a huge letdown after all the hype this so called deciding match generated. What a mess, bit embarrising really.
Frank Mir isnt looking any better, he won, but was a tired, flabby, average fighter that barely managed to generate 30 seconds of excitement the whole fight.
I was also really dissapointed with the Arlovski fight, he's the fighter I usually cant wait to see fight because he's just exploive, but to see him pick his way through 5 rounds without showing any real spark was just strange, he fought a fight to suit Silvia, and all Silvia had to do was keep putting his fist out there, very dull.
Dull sums up the whole of UFC61 for me really, on paper, some fantastic bouts, but when it all happened, the hype disolved away to leave extremely mediocre and boring fights, with the only potentially decent fight being stopped early, dont think ill bother watching UFC62, maybe just the highlights.
I cant stand Shamrock, and this Ortiz "victory" leaves it as unfinished business, and it gives Shamrock grounds for going on about how he wasnt hurt, and how he couldve turned it round, robbed a victory etc, so totally inconclusive.
Ortiz looked totally dominant, so I dont doubt the end result would have been the same, but it leaves a question mark, and another rematch, with those two talking it up again, felt lke a huge letdown after all the hype this so called deciding match generated. What a mess, bit embarrising really.
Frank Mir isnt looking any better, he won, but was a tired, flabby, average fighter that barely managed to generate 30 seconds of excitement the whole fight.
I was also really dissapointed with the Arlovski fight, he's the fighter I usually cant wait to see fight because he's just exploive, but to see him pick his way through 5 rounds without showing any real spark was just strange, he fought a fight to suit Silvia, and all Silvia had to do was keep putting his fist out there, very dull.
Dull sums up the whole of UFC61 for me really, on paper, some fantastic bouts, but when it all happened, the hype disolved away to leave extremely mediocre and boring fights, with the only potentially decent fight being stopped early, dont think ill bother watching UFC62, maybe just the highlights.
11 July 2006, 09:46 AM
#2
Agreed completely about all fights bar the Shamrock/Ortiz.
Personally I think the ref was right to stop the fight. Shamrock was hit constantly with 6 or 7 elbows to the face - completely unanswered and undefended.
Another 15 seconds would surely have seen another if not higher number of elbows causing god knows how much damage.
Overall it was very disappointing though.
Shaun
Personally I think the ref was right to stop the fight. Shamrock was hit constantly with 6 or 7 elbows to the face - completely unanswered and undefended.
Another 15 seconds would surely have seen another if not higher number of elbows causing god knows how much damage.
Overall it was very disappointing though.
Shaun
11 July 2006, 09:48 AM
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If Herb had let it go on, potential serious damage to Shamrock could have occured.
Shamrock received about 5 well placed elbows and was not effectively defending so left the ref with no choice.
Very disappointed with Arlovski, thought he would try to shoot and try ground & pound or submission following several rounds of stand up with little effect.
Would be nice to see a Ortiz vs Liddell rematch
Shamrock received about 5 well placed elbows and was not effectively defending so left the ref with no choice.
Very disappointed with Arlovski, thought he would try to shoot and try ground & pound or submission following several rounds of stand up with little effect.
Would be nice to see a Ortiz vs Liddell rematch
11 July 2006, 09:38 PM
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As said before, don't think the ref had any other option but to stop it.
If he'd let him carry on with those elbows he would have caused some serious damage. It was a lose - lose situation for the referee no matter what decision he made. He had a split second to make his mind up...
Off topic a little, but looking forward to seeing Michael Bisping in action - anyone know when his first fight in the UFC is ?
If he'd let him carry on with those elbows he would have caused some serious damage. It was a lose - lose situation for the referee no matter what decision he made. He had a split second to make his mind up...
Off topic a little, but looking forward to seeing Michael Bisping in action - anyone know when his first fight in the UFC is ?
12 July 2006, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SideShowBob
Not sure what other peoples views of the fight were, but for what its worth, I think Herb Dean could have let it run quite safely for another 15 seconds at least, to see whether Shamrock could have started defending himself.
I cant stand Shamrock, and this Ortiz "victory" leaves it as unfinished business, and it gives Shamrock grounds for going on about how he wasnt hurt, and how he couldve turned it round, robbed a victory etc, so totally inconclusive.
Ortiz looked totally dominant, so I dont doubt the end result would have been the same, but it leaves a question mark, and another rematch, with those two talking it up again, felt lke a huge letdown after all the hype this so called deciding match generated. What a mess, bit embarrising really.
Frank Mir isnt looking any better, he won, but was a tired, flabby, average fighter that barely managed to generate 30 seconds of excitement the whole fight.
I was also really dissapointed with the Arlovski fight, he's the fighter I usually cant wait to see fight because he's just exploive, but to see him pick his way through 5 rounds without showing any real spark was just strange, he fought a fight to suit Silvia, and all Silvia had to do was keep putting his fist out there, very dull.
Dull sums up the whole of UFC61 for me really, on paper, some fantastic bouts, but when it all happened, the hype disolved away to leave extremely mediocre and boring fights, with the only potentially decent fight being stopped early, dont think ill bother watching UFC62, maybe just the highlights.
I cant stand Shamrock, and this Ortiz "victory" leaves it as unfinished business, and it gives Shamrock grounds for going on about how he wasnt hurt, and how he couldve turned it round, robbed a victory etc, so totally inconclusive.
Ortiz looked totally dominant, so I dont doubt the end result would have been the same, but it leaves a question mark, and another rematch, with those two talking it up again, felt lke a huge letdown after all the hype this so called deciding match generated. What a mess, bit embarrising really.
Frank Mir isnt looking any better, he won, but was a tired, flabby, average fighter that barely managed to generate 30 seconds of excitement the whole fight.
I was also really dissapointed with the Arlovski fight, he's the fighter I usually cant wait to see fight because he's just exploive, but to see him pick his way through 5 rounds without showing any real spark was just strange, he fought a fight to suit Silvia, and all Silvia had to do was keep putting his fist out there, very dull.
Dull sums up the whole of UFC61 for me really, on paper, some fantastic bouts, but when it all happened, the hype disolved away to leave extremely mediocre and boring fights, with the only potentially decent fight being stopped early, dont think ill bother watching UFC62, maybe just the highlights.
Frank Mir is also past it and should seriously be leaving the sport now. There was always rumours about him doing little gym work before his motorbike accident, apparently he spent as little time working out as possible and so no doubt he hasnt changed. He was out on his feet after 3 minutes of the fight and really the fight could have gone either way.
I dont see where Arlovski can go in the UFC now to be honest. He cannot have another shot at Sylvia, 4 fights is taking the mick. He is not the force he was and people will all be looking to fight Sylvia rather than Arlovski. I can see him moving on.
Roll on UFC 62, Chuck is back. The puncher against the submissions expert. Looks to be a good fight. Rumoirs are that the crow will fight as well.
14 October 2006, 08:19 PM
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Heads Up for Ortiz Vs Shamrock III - the final chapter !
Its on Sky Channel 121 tonight, 10pm. I know the outcome but will still be glued to the box
Its on Sky Channel 121 tonight, 10pm. I know the outcome but will still be glued to the box
Last edited by Terzo 333; 14 October 2006 at 10:20 PM.
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14 October 2006, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by richiewong
Wonder if there's any news when Michael Bisping will be fighting
Will check after 1am and post again but it is coming up definatly.
16 October 2006, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by burbs
For Silva to destroy Franklin like that is unreal. I wonder who can really come through and beat him now? Obviously he fights the winner of TUF4 next but then what?
16 October 2006, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rik1471
I hope Matt Hughes moves weights and gets his cocky, farm boy face, stoved in. I'd pay to see that!
i would also pay to see that but there is more chance of me fighting Silva next than matt hughes moving weight. The cockiest big head that i have ever seen, and disrespectful with it. I really hope GSP smashes him.
16 October 2006, 04:12 PM
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I missed the Franklin fight, good then?
Ortiz Shamrock was just a repeat of the last one, Shamrock didnt even seem to care about the fight, he only went there to announce his retirement, he didnt even try really, just lay down and waited for the ref to stop the fight.
Good to see the back of him, he is such an outdated fighter who never even tried to adapt or grow as a fighter, the way he walked to the ring with that useless body builder trainer of his was laughable, so far up his own backend.
Im a little miffed with UFC at the moment, its a bit stale IMO, I want Pride fighters to meet UFC fighters, shake it up a bit, but I think Dana White is fearful that Pride guys may walk in and crush the UFC fighters, it'd destroy his business, so a risky move.
Even the Ortiz Liddel fight will be same as last time I recon, doesnt matter how good Ortiz's cardio is, Liddel is so good at throwing punchs he just overwhelmes opponents. If Ortiz wants to win, he needs to not try dive in straight away and try bring him down, cause Liddel is too crafty for that, he'll just stay up and start throwing. Ortiz needs to bite the bullet and go fist vs fist with him, at least until Liddels momentum slows a little, then take him down and do his ground and pound.
Some good news, not sure if anyones heard of Brock Lesnar? he used to do that WWE nonsense, but is an incredible athlete, and has signed for Pride (too heavy for UFC at 290 pounds), so will be intereting to see how he developes, training with one of the Gracies currently.
Ortiz Shamrock was just a repeat of the last one, Shamrock didnt even seem to care about the fight, he only went there to announce his retirement, he didnt even try really, just lay down and waited for the ref to stop the fight.
Good to see the back of him, he is such an outdated fighter who never even tried to adapt or grow as a fighter, the way he walked to the ring with that useless body builder trainer of his was laughable, so far up his own backend.
Im a little miffed with UFC at the moment, its a bit stale IMO, I want Pride fighters to meet UFC fighters, shake it up a bit, but I think Dana White is fearful that Pride guys may walk in and crush the UFC fighters, it'd destroy his business, so a risky move.
Even the Ortiz Liddel fight will be same as last time I recon, doesnt matter how good Ortiz's cardio is, Liddel is so good at throwing punchs he just overwhelmes opponents. If Ortiz wants to win, he needs to not try dive in straight away and try bring him down, cause Liddel is too crafty for that, he'll just stay up and start throwing. Ortiz needs to bite the bullet and go fist vs fist with him, at least until Liddels momentum slows a little, then take him down and do his ground and pound.
Some good news, not sure if anyones heard of Brock Lesnar? he used to do that WWE nonsense, but is an incredible athlete, and has signed for Pride (too heavy for UFC at 290 pounds), so will be intereting to see how he developes, training with one of the Gracies currently.
16 October 2006, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SideShowBob
I missed the Franklin fight, good then?
Ortiz Shamrock was just a repeat of the last one, Shamrock didnt even seem to care about the fight, he only went there to announce his retirement, he didnt even try really, just lay down and waited for the ref to stop the fight.
Good to see the back of him, he is such an outdated fighter who never even tried to adapt or grow as a fighter, the way he walked to the ring with that useless body builder trainer of his was laughable, so far up his own backend.
Im a little miffed with UFC at the moment, its a bit stale IMO, I want Pride fighters to meet UFC fighters, shake it up a bit, but I think Dana White is fearful that Pride guys may walk in and crush the UFC fighters, it'd destroy his business, so a risky move.
Even the Ortiz Liddel fight will be same as last time I recon, doesnt matter how good Ortiz's cardio is, Liddel is so good at throwing punchs he just overwhelmes opponents. If Ortiz wants to win, he needs to not try dive in straight away and try bring him down, cause Liddel is too crafty for that, he'll just stay up and start throwing. Ortiz needs to bite the bullet and go fist vs fist with him, at least until Liddels momentum slows a little, then take him down and do his ground and pound.
Some good news, not sure if anyones heard of Brock Lesnar? he used to do that WWE nonsense, but is an incredible athlete, and has signed for Pride (too heavy for UFC at 290 pounds), so will be intereting to see how he developes, training with one of the Gracies currently.
Ortiz Shamrock was just a repeat of the last one, Shamrock didnt even seem to care about the fight, he only went there to announce his retirement, he didnt even try really, just lay down and waited for the ref to stop the fight.
Good to see the back of him, he is such an outdated fighter who never even tried to adapt or grow as a fighter, the way he walked to the ring with that useless body builder trainer of his was laughable, so far up his own backend.
Im a little miffed with UFC at the moment, its a bit stale IMO, I want Pride fighters to meet UFC fighters, shake it up a bit, but I think Dana White is fearful that Pride guys may walk in and crush the UFC fighters, it'd destroy his business, so a risky move.
Even the Ortiz Liddel fight will be same as last time I recon, doesnt matter how good Ortiz's cardio is, Liddel is so good at throwing punchs he just overwhelmes opponents. If Ortiz wants to win, he needs to not try dive in straight away and try bring him down, cause Liddel is too crafty for that, he'll just stay up and start throwing. Ortiz needs to bite the bullet and go fist vs fist with him, at least until Liddels momentum slows a little, then take him down and do his ground and pound.
Some good news, not sure if anyones heard of Brock Lesnar? he used to do that WWE nonsense, but is an incredible athlete, and has signed for Pride (too heavy for UFC at 290 pounds), so will be intereting to see how he developes, training with one of the Gracies currently.
Liddel v Ortiz is a fight im looking forward to. Ortiz has said that he is going to play very clever. If he stands in my opinion he is mad. Liddel will destroy him, there is no way he could stand with Liddels punching power. However i cant see him being able to get Liddel down easily either. Interesting fight.
Franklin v Silva was a pure demolition job by Silva. Got Franklin in the stand up clinch and then threw the kness to the body. When Franklin tried to protect the body Silva threw the knee to the face and broke his nose. Franklin got away only to get a kick to the face and then a few more knees. He went down and fight over. Silva was an animal in there and too be honest i think he will have scared a few people.
Shamrock was in the octagon for the sole purpose of shaking hands with Tito, ending their long running "fued" and retiring. He knew he stood no chance but hey its just another payday for the old guy!!!
16 October 2006, 07:50 PM
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Did anyone see Cage Rage on Sky Sports 3 on Sunday night ? No where near as good as UFC, and, dare I say it, a bit on the "cheesy" side, but watchable none the less.
Looking forward to seeing Bisping's first UFC fight - he's got huge potential.
TUF4, Carter Vs Serra interresting aswell
Serra wil win the competition for me...
Looking forward to seeing Bisping's first UFC fight - he's got huge potential.
TUF4, Carter Vs Serra interresting aswell
Serra wil win the competition for me...
17 October 2006, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardS2005
So is Pride shown anywhere on Satellite?? Never seen any except clips on Youtube
Russ
17 October 2006, 12:59 PM
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Lots of info here: PRIDE Fighting Championships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Im afraid ive only seen it on You Tube myself, its UFC with even less rules. You can stamp on the guy when he's down, knee to the head when he's down, and a few other things that make it even more brutal than a UFC fight.
They are planning a big US TV push this year, so may bode well for us to see it. They also have Tyson and Lesnar now too, and are trying to expand the franchise, with a lot of resistance from UFC.
Im afraid ive only seen it on You Tube myself, its UFC with even less rules. You can stamp on the guy when he's down, knee to the head when he's down, and a few other things that make it even more brutal than a UFC fight.
They are planning a big US TV push this year, so may bode well for us to see it. They also have Tyson and Lesnar now too, and are trying to expand the franchise, with a lot of resistance from UFC.
17 October 2006, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SideShowBob
Lots of info here: PRIDE Fighting Championships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They also have Tyson now too, and are trying to expand the franchise, with a lot of resistance from UFC.
They also have Tyson now too, and are trying to expand the franchise, with a lot of resistance from UFC.
Ns04
PS
PRIDE has announced plans for Mike Tyson to fight in the group's New Year's Eve show. Tyson would face a PRIDE fighter under boxing rules
Chicken!!
17 October 2006, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SideShowBob
Some good news, not sure if anyones heard of Brock Lesnar? he used to do that WWE nonsense, but is an incredible athlete, and has signed for Pride (too heavy for UFC at 290 pounds), so will be intereting to see how he developes, training with one of the Gracies currently.
17 October 2006, 05:15 PM
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Not sure Joey, I saw a traning video of Lesnar, and he's a very driven, very scary individual.
Sapp is just big, very out of shape, with few skills, and he's relied on his size to get him his name.
Lesnar on the other hand is in the best possible shape, training with Gracie to learn all the skills he can, very very fast (he outsprinted many of the American Footballers when he tried out for Vikings), and has some decent ring experience.
Id say he'll be a completely different prospect, sort of a giant Matt Hughes, that level of wrestling skills, with some heavy blows to boot. I cant see anyone being too chuffed to get into the ring with him, when he lands a blow it'd just about kill you!! Over 20 stone without an ounce of fat.
Wanderlei vs Chuck would be superb, both mental punchers. Have you seen that Crocop guy? he's just evil, he gets his opponent down, then just kicks and stamps on their head till they're unconcious, lovely chap, must make a wonderful dinner guest.
Sapp is just big, very out of shape, with few skills, and he's relied on his size to get him his name.
Lesnar on the other hand is in the best possible shape, training with Gracie to learn all the skills he can, very very fast (he outsprinted many of the American Footballers when he tried out for Vikings), and has some decent ring experience.
Id say he'll be a completely different prospect, sort of a giant Matt Hughes, that level of wrestling skills, with some heavy blows to boot. I cant see anyone being too chuffed to get into the ring with him, when he lands a blow it'd just about kill you!! Over 20 stone without an ounce of fat.
Wanderlei vs Chuck would be superb, both mental punchers. Have you seen that Crocop guy? he's just evil, he gets his opponent down, then just kicks and stamps on their head till they're unconcious, lovely chap, must make a wonderful dinner guest.
17 October 2006, 05:37 PM
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Watched the Franklin vs Silva fight last night. Is it just me or did Rich look like he had lost before he even stepped in the ring? Very Cagey start by both and why on earth Franklin stayed in the Clinch I have no idea. Afterwards he said he thought he would have had the advantage in the clinch - Ive hardly ever seen him utilise the clinch before. Bad tactical error IMHO.
Only really leaves Liddell and Hughes as the dominant champions. At least with Chuck your guaranteed to have a slug fest as its damn hard to keep him on the floor. Would be nice to see him fight Tito again but I think Tito needs to proper warm up fights rather than 1 min slappings on that old fart shamrock.
I also would like to see Bisping soon as he was very impressive in TUF3. I also really like Mike Swick. Didnt rate him in the show but since coming into the Octagon hes show some great skills in all areas.
Simon.
Only really leaves Liddell and Hughes as the dominant champions. At least with Chuck your guaranteed to have a slug fest as its damn hard to keep him on the floor. Would be nice to see him fight Tito again but I think Tito needs to proper warm up fights rather than 1 min slappings on that old fart shamrock.
I also would like to see Bisping soon as he was very impressive in TUF3. I also really like Mike Swick. Didnt rate him in the show but since coming into the Octagon hes show some great skills in all areas.
Simon.
17 October 2006, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by P1Fanatic
Watched the Franklin vs Silva fight last night. Is it just me or did Rich look like he had lost before he even stepped in the ring? Very Cagey start by both and why on earth Franklin stayed in the Clinch I have no idea. Afterwards he said he thought he would have had the advantage in the clinch - Ive hardly ever seen him utilise the clinch before. Bad tactical error IMHO.
Only really leaves Liddell and Hughes as the dominant champions. At least with Chuck your guaranteed to have a slug fest as its damn hard to keep him on the floor. Would be nice to see him fight Tito again but I think Tito needs to proper warm up fights rather than 1 min slappings on that old fart shamrock.
I also would like to see Bisping soon as he was very impressive in TUF3. I also really like Mike Swick. Didnt rate him in the show but since coming into the Octagon hes show some great skills in all areas.
Simon.
Only really leaves Liddell and Hughes as the dominant champions. At least with Chuck your guaranteed to have a slug fest as its damn hard to keep him on the floor. Would be nice to see him fight Tito again but I think Tito needs to proper warm up fights rather than 1 min slappings on that old fart shamrock.
I also would like to see Bisping soon as he was very impressive in TUF3. I also really like Mike Swick. Didnt rate him in the show but since coming into the Octagon hes show some great skills in all areas.
Simon.
Too late for Ortiz to have some proper warm up fights as they get it on in December so we wont see Ortiz again until then.