LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

Hi

They can't get a solicitor to help, they all offer help for those sueing and one solicitor that gave them 10 mins free advice explained that if they found one it will cost 3K up front which they can't afford (they have it but are unwilling to shell it out!)
They say they will do it them selves but I have stressed they can't possibly do it.

Heres the score

They rented out a house to some woman and her kid, after a couple of months she informed my dad that the roof gutter and sink was leaking, the job was done the same day, no problem, while my dad was there her bro was fixing the washer.
She broke her leg (not sure how long after) and has blamed a wet kitchen floor due to the gutter or sink on this leg break.

This was 3 years ago and my parents have just had a massive file in the post explaining many facts (stairs not wide enough for one) from her solicitor.

My parents have been to see her neighbours and one said that the day she broke her leg she told them she slipped because the washing machine was leaking and they put this in writing but are unwilling to go to court.

My dad found all sorts of letters in the bin after she left the house for debt and an unsuccessful claim from a bus firm.

Could they do this themselves in court, I feel they will be ripped apart.

Any advice welcome

Just to add they didn't have insurance!!

Spoon

If they have the money for a solicitor but are unwilling to pay for one then it's a slightly foolhardy gamble.

I would imagine, although not sure, the neighbours could be subpoenaed to appear in court on your parents behalf. Not nice if the neighbours didn't want that, but necessary to win the case for your parents maybe.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Did your parents have any insurance at all for the house or any other house? Most include public liability & this would come under that. You need to check what ever insurance that they may have had just in case.



For a straight broken leg (no pun!) the woman is looking at maybe £5-£7K but she has to maybe take this to trial with no witnesses and to offer the judge that the balance of probability was in her favour - ie that the washing machine was faulty, despite it's having been fixed - and that is what caused the accident. So, do your parents still have the washing machine? Has it leaked subsequently? Any evidence to say that it has been OK? New tenants etc - get a statement.

Neighbours having made a written statement will possibly be of favour to the lady but they are not witness to the event - heresay in as much as they heard what the plaintiff wanted them to hear.

I'm guessing that this is being done on a no win no fee basis by the woman's solicitors. I am also presuming that they are making a claim for damages of some degree/amount. Have they issued proceedings in court? If not, it may be that they are trying to push your parents into offering to settle. Even if they have, there's no reason to roll over & pay up all or even part of. At the end of the day, your parents can stand themselves up in court for little/no cost to defend the claim and as above the woman has to attempt to win over a judge as to whether or not the claim is valid. It is a risk and no doubt an anxious time for your parents but they can control it.

My wife, who is an experienced plaintiff PI solicitor, said that she would advise your parents to spend a couple of hundred pounds from a proper plaintiff or defendant personal injury solicitor's time to get a qualified opinion on the case before them. Beware that the solicitor will err on the side of caution due to the fear of being sued for wrongful advice but still would be worthwhile. See what they say.

Secondly my wife said that as a Plaintiff PI solicitor that she would not want to be taking on this woman's case herself (Note that is based on the facts as told us on SN and facevalue, so don't consider a proper legal opinion).


Stuff about the woman's "character" is irrelevant. You can be a hobo axe wielding murderous paedophile schizoid and still have an accident and be as a result of someone's negligence.

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for replies

I have told them that any letters they found about her previous are irrelavent.
Sorry but they are in their 60s and like many at this age are not on this planet but they are honest and reliable but you can't tell them anything, they know better.

Any furniture was the renters and has gone, previous renters were family (house bought so my bro and his new wife had somewhere to
live, not that they appreciated it) due to problems renting to another member of the family they sold the house and paid off their mortgage.

Puff - can they be forced to sell their home, they are stressed now and had it valued, I told them not to worry.
Also this woman has since changed her name, maybe a maiden name but seems odd.

Regards
Lee

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I would tell them in the strongest terms that they need to get legal advice.

They could lose out on a technicality and although punitive damages are less dramatic than they are in the States are likely to be financially better off.

The problem is that even if they win and are awarded costs it sounds as if the other party is unlikely to be able to pay.

Drunken Bungle Whore

Check their home contents insurance policy to see if they have legal expenses cover - if they do, you should be able to get free access to a solicitor via the insurance company.

Good luck.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Worth checking out - most policies have 'legal expenses cover' however be prepared for it not to apply because the problem relates to a different property that would have had separate insurance (that may not have had legal expenses cover).

In that situation you would not be covered.

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

im afraid this is gonna be an expensive lesson to be learned..... i take it your dad has rented the property with electric items and white goods in (i.e washer, microwave, cooker) ? if he has then he should have pat test certificates for these he also has an obligation to test the heating system every year or face heavy fines. as for the stairs not being wide enough, does it have a loft conversion?

sociopath

Sounds like bludging scum. Have her other leg broken, or better still have her offed.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Now that is good advice, are you offering your services?

marky1

As a few have said, you must talk to your insurers - they should look after it all.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Why?

The law suit relates to a commercial arrangement on a separate property. If the landlord had appropriate insurance (the poster states that they did not) then they MAY be covered for legal expenses if they had cover.

If they have legal expenses on their own home insurance then it will not cover it. Typical legal expenses cover is, "The policy covers Legal Expenses incurred arising from occupation of your home, your employment or if you suffer injury as a result of the negligence".

Being sued over an issue with a rental property as a landlord does not really come into this category.

It is worth checking their own policy however it is VERY unlikely that they will be covered.

If our home policies covered legal expenses of our commercial ventures then that would be fantastic - but they don't.

Rannoch

suprabeast

A Pat test wont flag up a leaking washing machine and even if you did test it on a yearly basis, leaks can spring up from anywhere in a day

richardg

i think the man on the clapham omnibus, if he knew anything about building regs, would say that she saw the stairs before she agreed to the tenancy agreement and that the regulations are continually changing. therefore it would be unreasonable to expect that the stair width should comply with the current regulations as the rest of the house is not subject to the current regulations; only those which were current at the time the house was constructed.

Based on the above, I would not expect that stair issue to be relevant.

As everyone else says, it is advisable to appoint a solicitor. They may also wish to consider going for costs if they are confident that this woman this just trying to rip them off.

stilover

This is just one of the reasons I've been reluctant to buy a house to let. Have heard a few horror stories of people being sued, having the house trashed, no payment of rent, and having difficulty evicting bad tenants.

Your parents really need to seek proper legal advise. Sounds like this woman is just another in a longer list of people who think the state owes them a living, and think nothing of suing law abiding people for all they can get. Any benefit going these people will know about it. No doubt this woman is claiming legal aid to sue your parents as well.

A solicitor will also know if these letters can be used to prove this woman is a serial claimer. If proven, and with a good/sensible (hard to find these days) then it should get thrown out of court, or at least it should be.

Spoon

Reading this reply makes me think that you haven't read the original post as I have.

The Washing machine was the tenants, the tenants brother was fixing it.

The landlord was told of a leaking gutter and sink, both were repaired immediately, therefore doing their duty.

The neighbours statement wouldn't be worth much if the tenant had told them she slipped and broke her leg because of the wet floor, due to a leaking sink or gutter. However, she said it was due to her washing machine that her brother had apparently fixed.

Regardless of the neighbour, the washine machine was the tenants anyway.

Maybe Lee can confirm this is the case?

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

i know this but having all the correct paperwork as legislation says paints a picture of a caring landlord who follows the rules but if u have nothing at all it gives the impression of someone wanting to make easy money with no regard for the safety of the tenant.

renting is a huge liability nowadays

ScoobyDoo555

Dead right Spoon,

That was my take - unless the leak/wet floor can be proven to have resulted from the faulty sink/gutter, she's p1ssing in the wind.

My understanding too was that the washing machine was their own, plus it has no bearing on this at all. Tough luck really.
Has your dad got any reciepts or log/fault book documentation stating that the leak was fixed?

Sounds to me like she's trying it on, when the whole thing is just an accident (probably caused by the washing machine leaking onto the floor - a job that THEY were sorting)

However, my only advice would be to go to the CAB with your parents - perhaps they can advise on what to do better.

Best of luck

Dan

The Zohan

Hi

No expert at all.

Have they got legal cover included with their household insurance if so investigate the chances of using that to cover their legal costs.

As for the stairs not wide enough unles they are in the kitchen and contributing to the accident they are not relevant in this instance IMHO.

Was the gutting making the floor wet and leaking inside the property, if not unlikely cause.

Sounds like a serial blagger but treat with respect as they will know what tricks to try.

I wish them good luck.

FWIT - I would ask on the 5-0 forum as well

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

You're dead right - I misread that as my dad and brother

Brendan Hughes

Eh? Was she from Skye?

Petem95

One of my mates lets out a house in England, and he now lives in Ireland.

Last yeat the washing machine broke, and the tenants really kicked off about it, wanting it fixing same day etc.

Ended up with him having to get a new machine delivered, and have a certified electrition and plumber there to make sure it was plumbed in and connected properly!!! (forget the exact reasons why, but they needed to be there) Cost him an absolute fortune.

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

I cannot remember all the details, I do know of a leaking sink but not sure if this is mentioned, im sure it will be but my dad actually just said it was cos of the gutter (sorry to confuse), my dad has kept all reciepts incl the gutter, but she has said it took months to get fixed, another lie.
She hasn't mentioned that her washer was leaking because it was he own.

There is a lesson to be learned here, another one - have insurance, they dont have any insurance on their own property, mad, they say its because they do all their own repairs! Ive tried tellin them.

Thanks for replies, i'll ask more q's and get back on here. Cheers

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

Apparently she slipped going up stairs (stairs off kitchen) hense the stair depth report and slipped due to wet kitchen floor.

My dad says it was because she was overweight, having a leaking washing machine and that her big dog was mad and ran about all the time.

He has loads of reciepts including when the house was renovated years before, and has kept a log of payments, problems etc

Its just that they wont or they say cant get legal representation.

Lee

Brendan Hughes

By the sounds of it, that's twice they think they're saving money when actually it will cost them a fortune. And it will also cost them more than financially when your dad has a heart attack from the stress of the case, once he realises that the other lawyer has him for breakfast and he's suddenly looking at a 7k payout plus 10k legal fees.

If you can, insist on paying for a lawyer yourself and ask them to pay you back once you've won (you should, from what you've said).

Good luck.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

For this type of case you would have to be insane or very knowledgeable of the law to represent yourself in court. In the small claims court it is much more straightforward, however in this case there is a complex legal challenge AND there seems to be a strong dossier of evidence.

If she says she slipped on the stair due to a wet floor and the stair does not meet building regulations then liability could fall to your parents simply on that basis - irrespective of where the water has come from.

There is no way your parents cannot get legal representation, it may be that they are not prepared to pay for it.

Also as I stated in an earlier post, if this woman has no financial resources and your parents win with good legal support they may not be able to claim costs as they would be paid at a rate of £1 a week!!

The one thing you can be sure of is that a no win no fee lawyer (which is what she will be using) will not give up until it is settled OR the court makes an award.

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

Now they (my parents) say what can a solicitor do, I have an answer for everything they are going to ask, the solicitor cant invent things they said!!!
I ended up having an arguement on the phone so i'm not bothering now, leave it to them.
They are getting good reports from previous renters so good luck to em.

Theres only so much you can do.

For what its worth -

She broke her leg in Feb 2003 due to leaking sink (this was the original excuse with 1st solicitor - no mention with this one) plus leaking gutter, overflow and bath leaking yet she walked down stairs in bare feet and lived in the house without paying rent until June 2003, claim made in april 2003

Cheers all

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Sort of

No Win No Fee is an insurance policy itself that the solicitors take out. If they win, they get a sucess fee (thats the fee - pre-agreed on the complexity of the case/liability etc) and if they lose, the insurance pays out to cover the legal costs incurred - ie solicitor fees. That insurance may not cover all disbursements so there still may be some costs to the plaintiff. The solicitors can't lose often as otherwise they won't be able to offer that insurance. To them a settlement is a win as often insurers pay out to stop further higher legal costs on low to medium cases.

The below is a quote that explains No Win No Fee a bit better than me

Sorry - fiendishly cut n pasted from a Claims Management Company's website but due to Mods advertising restrictions I can't say whose, but always seek out specialists in PI who preferably are members of APIL - Association Of Personal Injury Lawyers

AllanB

If a leaking roof was reported and then fixed with no further complaints about it still leaking then I canmot see they have a leg to stand on. If you have documentation proving dates of calls letters and recipts of the wrok done then that could show they reacted immediately to the need to fix the leak,

They have as much responsibility to make you aware of issues as you do to fix them ensuring the property is safe.

Get them to remove the emotin and simple write a timelined account of events. That can mae is a great deal easier to see patterns and response times.


AllanB

Brendan Hughes

that's what she's claiming!