r32

IDENTITY CARDS

You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to that.

What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity Register) where all of your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there.

There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence status and many other private and personal facts about you. There is unlimited space for every other details of your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament.

By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would be wrong to come to this conclusion. This new card will be used to check your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every chemist, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was presented. This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £99 at your branch of Nat West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made at the NIR. Restaurants and off licences will demand that your card is swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over 18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If you want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe.

If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card,or a supermarket loyalty card, or a driving licence you will have to present your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as every other business will be. This means that each of these entities will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping habits under your unique NIR number. These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed dossier of all your activities.

Certainly, the government will have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread you eat - all accessible via a single unique number in a central database.

This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.

The Government is going to COMPEL you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you whether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport.

Your ID Card will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favour of ID Cards can be easily disproved. ID Cards WILL NOT stop terrorists; every Spaniard has a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not 'eliminate benefit fraud', which in comparison, is small compared to the astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions according to the LSE (London School of Economics). This scheme exists solely to exert total surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

If you did not know the full scope of the proposed ID Card Scheme before and you are as unsettled as I am at what it really means to you, to this country and its way of life, I urge you to email or photocopy this and give it to your friends and colleagues and everyone else you think should know and who cares. The Bill has proceeded to this stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this proposal being made public.

scoobynutta555

Im totally against this whole ID card thing. At least the House of Lords have had the sense to throw it out twice now. Fed up of hearing from Sun readers down the pub how ID cards will be the cure for everything thats wrong in this country.

Last time we had ID cards in this country was WW2 and they couldnt wait to burn them once they no longer needed them.

In fact this whole area of secutiry is starting to get properly on my ****. If it wasn't for dubious and illegal actions of this government in their foreign affairs we wouldn't be here now. Its no longer when do turn into Orwells 1984 we're already there.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

@ r32

If all of this is not public knowledge then how do you know so much about it in detail?

Do you genuinely know that this is going to be the situation or are you scaremongering the week minded scooby driver!!

SiDHEaD

Nothing in that bothers me - the only problem i have is with the cost.

unclebuck

Most people don't care. There are much more important things to think about - like that really fit french bird on the telly...

GC8

These threads are always full of apathetic half-witted replies. Id suggest that the cost is the least of anyones f*cking worries!

SiDHEaD

Please explain why? I genuinely don't know much about this...

The Zohan

Cost is an issue as is whether it will ever work!

Would/could the money be better spent elsewhere on security
Will the system work and can it be hacked or abused or defeated - the government does not have a good record of setting up computer sytems that work.

Hardly any other countries are rushing into this and getting ID cards, what does that tell us, we are heading the field or it is not such a good idea.

I am not a fan of id cards i feel the money would be better spent on intelligence, training improving passports and blocking the huge holes in our borders that allow 1000's of people to cross them as the want.

We have some 250K illegal immigrants already (best guess by the government FFS), will they have id cards?
whats to stop more from coming in. Do we think terrorists are just gonna jump on an easyjet flight and declare themselves at customs, what if the terrorists or such are not British and do not have an id card, how does a British ID card help in this situation?

We have ID cards - our passports!

Felix.

I'm not sure as to how much info will be placed onto the system - I can't imagine that they will record every time someone buys a sandwich at a restaurant etc etc.

Another angle of this ID argument is the fact that so many people can assume identities at the drop of a hat. Wanted everyday criminals can give false details if stopped and its very difficult to prove them wrong. In fact, if you see a suspicious character walking around a decent area at 2.30 in the morning, he doesn’t have to tell you who he is. It could be that he is burglar looking for his next house.

If we have a power to demand identities if stopped, it would half crime overnight – thus saving a fortune.

OllyK

The information is in the public arena, it's just that in general people haven't bothered to go looking for it.

OllyK

Felix.

Explain Olly....?

Brendan Hughes

Felix, you assume you'll have the power, and that people will have to comply. Yet most of the legislation is only being allowed to go through provided a) people don't have to have an ID card, and then b) provided they don't have to carry it at all times. Your forward vision is rather telling.

scoobynutta555

Remember the mantra that always accompanies an opressive law "if you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear".

OllyK

What is there to explain?

Either cards remain optional, in which case they are pointless or they become mandatory, in which case what you describe is the equivalent of stalinist russia.

Hanslow

Felix, you've also assumed that there will be no identity theft. If/once introduced, that'll be the first thing the crims will start looking into so that they can pretend to be someone else, or make someone up, and still get away with it whilst some other poor mug takes the blame for something they didn't do. The powers that be will say that the system is foolproof, therefore you are guilty because your identity was used.

The Zohan

I undertand the Spanish have an identiy card system in place, this did not help with the Madrid bombings so i do not see how this is going to help with our security no matter how good it is.

There are always going to be peoople who can cheat or hack the system or never ever appear on it.

criminals and terrorists live outside the law and will adapt.

It wil just end up a way of monitoring the on the whole honest members of society who have little or nothing to hide.

OllyK

And with the London bombings, the perpatrators were UK citizens that had never been in trouble with the police, so they'd have had ID cards and still not been spotted. Don't for a moment think ID cards has anything to do with security of the public, it has everything however, to do with control.

The Zohan

Agreed!
Just another cynical lie by this government and backdoor way of getting in ID cards, it will never affect the very people it is being portrayed as being the fix for.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Like people like me and all the other brits that live abroad, are we expected to get one of these cards before we are allowed back into britain on holiday or the like??

The Zohan

Heh and me, i am off soon as well!

OllyK

At the moment, the "ID" card part of it is just hald the equation, the other is the damn great database they want to build. If the government have their way, from as soon as it foes throuhg, if you renew your driving license or passport you WILL have to be registered on the DB. The government claim this is not mandatory enforcement as you can choose not to renew your passport or driving license. By 2011 (ish), anbody not already on the register WILL have to register. Initially you won't have to carry your ID with you, but do allow this defeats the point, so expect them to be made mandatory to carry at all times shortly after. There after expect random ID checks to start popping up all over the place, to ensure you are complying.

scoobynutta555

It's a shame how this country is now being run. 'Policies' built on lies and deceit. This controlling and paranoid govt is slowly turning a free country into a real life Orwellian film.

The amounts of taxpayers money that must have been wasted in pointless projects must be staggering?

How much have the govt wasted on:

Failed govt *super* IT systems
millenium dome
war in Iraq
black holes such as NHS/Education
ID cards
etc etc etc

The whole show stinks to high heaven, and if even moderate political people like myself get totally pissed off with it all then theres not much hope for this govt at all.

Ive not seen one progressive step for this country for a good few years now. I can see many born and bred English people simply selling up and buggering off to a less oppressive and wasteful land. We've become a leftie tax and spend economy with all the worst aspects of right wing dogma. Sounds impossible, but it's probably all we can put a "made in England" sticker on these days.

Leslie

This information was published in the press last week. It is in the form of an email which is being circulated in Parliamentary circles and the House of Lords is getting very worried about what they are hearing, as well as some Labour MP's even, the original Labour ones that is.

The amount of power this will give a government over the people in the future is truly frightening. You only have to consider all the points for a while to understand that.

Knowing what we know, do you really trust modern politicians to have that kind of information on the way we live our lives?

It is the biggest indication so far of what this scheming bunch have been planning as far as complete control of every aspect of our lives is concerned in the future.

We can only hope that it does not happen.

Les

Brendan Hughes

The grass is always greener... If you go to Spain you have mandatory ID cards and a hopelessly inefficient government. Go to US; welcome to the land of Bush, Halliburton, WMDs and the Patriot Act. Go to Canada and you'll be stunned at the amount of PC and support for immigrants. Go to Oz and you'll get it in the neck for being a whinging Pom.

Go with your eyes open. No country is perfect.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

come to Germany we have great beer fests you get taxed through the nose but at least they are honest and tell you you are getting taxed through the nose. Nothing stealthy about our taxes.

Also speed cameras are for revenue generation not safety

scoobynutta555

I know, I used to say it myself. I have a good chuck of land in Tipperary/Waterford and will be moving out there in a few years time. The place has it's bad points compared to the UK, but they IMHO are outweighed by the benefits the place has to offer.

Chris L

Whilst I do object to the idea of the ID card as I do not believe they will solve anything, what concerns me more is the security around the database. As Paul mentioned earlier, the government's record in this area is not good. ID cards will hold 13 pieces of unique information, inlcuding biometric data.

My concern is that when the system is compromised (as it will be...), how does the government intend to replace my fingerprints, retina scans and DNA information? IT security is my business and I would never advise one of my clients to put so much critical information in one place - this is exactly what they are proposing to do.

I can't remember the exact quote about the subtle erosion of rights and freedoms, but this is what is happening.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

And if they use Oracle just imagine the cost of the licences they will need

and just imagine if you get to the checkout after your monthly shop and they swipe your id card and the database is down or can not connect just imagine what a prat you will feel holding the queue up

But knowing the UK gov they will use mysql on linux as it is free

Brendan Hughes

Haven't you seen Minority Report? Expect sales in spare eyeballs to rocket.