little-ginge

This may be SIAL, but have just seen in today's paper...

'A 45 year old man in an Impreza caused the death of another driver by racing his car at speeds of up to 140mph, while his terrified childern begged him to slow down.
He chased/raced a pensioner in a MGZR, down country roads, reaching speeds of 135-140mp in a 60mph road limit. As the 45 year old 'showed off' to his two children, the old man lost control of his car and ploughed into a telegraph pole.
Rather than stop to help, the scooby driver did a three-point turn and roared off - telling his son and daughter (aged 14 & 8), to keep quiet about the crash.

He started a 5 year prison term and a 15 year driving ban after admitting death by dangerous driving.'

I feel sorry for the dead mans family, and for the children of the jailed driver. It's amazing that more people were not killed, or injured.

SCOsazOBY

An absolute idiot, he should of gone down for longer

What was a pensioner doing driving a MGZR in the first place??

little-ginge

And what was he doing racing, at his age??

Johnny E

I've heard people at that age have sex

16vmarc

Caused the death my ****. MG Driver knew what he was doing.

little-ginge

true, he was racing the scooby driver. They were both old enough to know better.

SCOsazOBY

See this makes me now ask what is the upper age limit you can hold a driving licence at? I dont think there is one is there? If not then i think they should set one

LG John

Tonight I could post here that I'm about to head into town and horrifically beat another man. I will attack him from behind and knock him out with my first blow. I will kick him in the chest as hard as I can breaking his ribs and rupturing his spleen. I will rain kicks into his body and head for minutes before steading myself against a railing and jumping up and down on his head fracturing it, breaking his nose, shattering his eye sockets and cheekbones and imparing his vision and some facial muscles for life. I will then spit on him and walk off to join my mates for a booze up in another pub. The man will survive after treatment and a few weeks in hospital. This thread will be used as evidence in court of my predetermined malicious intent to inflict planned actually bodily harm with intent to maim or kill another human being and I will be jailed.

I will bet you I will get less than 5 years.




How can that be right?




I can't quite stretch to excuse racing at 140mph in a 60mph 'twisties' area. There is having a bit of spirited banter and there is taking the p*ss. However, the subaru driver did NOT set out that day planning to kill someone, the subaru driver did NOT force the MG driver to 'race' him, did NOT force the MG driver to lose control of his vehilce nor did he ram or force him off the road and yet he is sentanced as if he was a killer As usual as soon as anything anywhere happens in this country it has to be documented and someone has to be made responsible for it. I'm afriad to walk down the street in case I trip up and someone that laid a paving slab 10 years ago loses his livelyhood as a result!

Clearly this is an individual that took things too far and needs some form of punishment but it is absolutely and utterly of the wrong scale relative to other crimes. If you get 5 years for being a 'race' where the other party bins it and dies then I should get 40 years for the crime I'm theoretically going to go and carry out right now........


U.K.------------------------ROTFLMAO <shakes head>

fast bloke

I reckon that once you hit 40 you should be track tested against some other old geezer - that german w4nker should be OK for starters. Cobbler..... erm no..... Shoe maker??????????

LG John

Oh and FWIW I had a 'race' with an EVO 4 today and the driver shut down promptly at 80mph where I was happy to continue further. He was discaplined and decided that was enough for him so I respected that by shutting down immediately after. He chose his own destiny and was responsible for his own actions. The MG driver could have - and against a scooby probably should have - given up long before such speeds were reached. He determined his own fate.

SCOsazOBY

Good point

Glad i don't live in your neighbourhood

LG John

One last point.................................. I was winning

SCOsazOBY

is that on PS2 or xbox??

Kevin Groat

This is already the subject of a healthy debate over here..

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=487366

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

'I will bet you I will get less than 5 years.'

Or the beating of your life if it doesnt go to plan, is the guy the Evo driver ?

Its a joke by the way.

Swen6

You sound like you've done this before

Leslie

Saxo boy

What you said to excuse the Subaru driver his sentence was the very height of modern PC attitudes towards the really extreme law breakers.

Why shouldn't a pensioner have a high performance car? I know a good few pensioners who would quite safely leave most young drivers for dead on a track day!

Les

gljam

Leslie, i don't think Saxo Boy was excusing the Subaru driver, he was pointing out that his sentence was greater than that which would be recieved by someone doing in my opinion, a much worse crime.

I agree that he should have gone to jail for leaving the scene of the accident and potentially endangering the lives of his children, but to also be accused of causing the death of the other driver, who seemed more than happy to get involved in the 'race', seems stupid.

There is no reason why the pensioner shouldn't have a high performance car, but he should also be accountabe for his own actions, surely at that age he should have the common sense to know what he was doing was wrong and potentially lethal, yet he still decided to do it and paid the ultimate price.

As has been said before it also sets the dangerous precedent, if someone overtakes you, crashes and then dies, could you be accused of racing him and then found guilty of murder/manslaughter??

It definately makes me nervous.

LG John

The above poster is correct - I'm not trying to excuse his actions. I have (as have most of us) had a bit of banter in the car with another driver even on 60mph twisty roads but always in moderation. If I feel it is getting silly I slow down as do most people. This guy clearly went waaaaaaaay beyond a 'reasonable' (if you can say that) breach of the law. His biggest crime as I see it was the attempted cover up. For all he knows by stopping he could have saved the other driver but he decided to bolt.

My point however (as per a thread I made a few months back on this subject) is that the sentance is overly harsh IMHO compared to other crimes. If we as a society dictate that this crime is worth 5 years then we have to seriously step up sentances for violent crime across the board. So much so that anyone carrying out first degree muder will not be released during their natural life.

Don't read too much into the guy being a 'pensioner' - the papers just add that for effect. For all we know he was 65, collecting a pension but was a avid petrolhead (probably not driving an MG though ) and was well able to drive.

logiclee

It can happen to anyone who gets into a road race.

Long term Scoobynetter Darren "DC911" is currently serving a similar term for being involved in an alleged fatal race.

Lee

LG John

^^^^ and that case was even more of a joke IIRC.

Rabid

Agreed that this is well OTT considering both parties appear to be consensual.
Imagine I go down the boozer and sit at the bar with some old soak. We sit there drinking and he decides he can match me drink for drink. After many rounds he falls off his bar stool and dies there and then of alcohol poisoning. Am I in any way culpable just because I was drinking 'against' him and he can't take it? I say not, even if I then leave to avoid the inevitable backlash.

We make our own choices in life as adults and we should live with the consequences. Unfortunately it seems merely being involved in a 'race' with another driver makes you responsible for his incompetance and lack of skill. Utter Bullsh1t. The MG driver played the game and lost and is now dragging some poor git down with him. Maybe he should have tempered his behaviour against his lack of driving skill and the capabilitites of his car.

LG John

Wow, I never thought of it like that. That is an excellent point.....very good point

imlach

Do you truly believe 65 is too old to hold a driving licence?

Can I ask you again when you turn 65? I suspect your answer then will be very different.

65 may be the age one is deemed a pensioner, but it's certainly not an age where one suddenly becomes devoid of all mental & physical actions

Anyway, the DVLA already have rules in place. Once you're 70, you have to reapply for your licence every 3 years, and it subject to a medical. There is, however, no upper age limit, and why should there be. You could never decide one.

imlach

Oh, and I've said it many a time on here before.

Our roads are for the purpose of getting from A to B in as safe & timely manner as possible. 'Racing' doesn't come into that definition I'm afraid.

A-roads/B-roads are really not a place for exceeding speed limits by large margins, let alone 'racing' others at speeds well above 80mph. I know too many cyclists who frequent such roads and have had near-misses (as have I).

The limits are put in place by the authorities such that ALL users of roads can jointly use them as safely as possible. It is not up to individuals to set their own limits based on what is "safe" and "reasonable", or when things have got "silly".

LG John

You're totally right Imlach Days after that shelby cobra was driven down the M1 at 190mph and they decided on a speed limit they did extensive research and concluded that 70mph was the ideal overall compromise of what the vehciles of the day could safely do, what that average driver could safely handle, etc offset against making good progress.

......they did not just stick a wet finger in the air and say........................'70mph'll do eh?!' <sceptical>

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. Despite the fact that ALL drivers should be doing this most don't because the law says they can do 60mph on a 60mph road and thus Mr white van with 500kg load and no a.b.s will be sitting 0.5 car lengths off you *** at 60mph in the wet because the law says he can. It's drivers like this who cannot apply the grey matter as to what is 'safe', 'reasonable and 'silly' that worry me more than a petrolhead opening her up a bit (not referring to our 140mph guy here but your more reserved petrolheads)

imlach

...but interestingly, nearly all European countries have limits that are LOWER than UK ones (excluding some sections of Autobahn in Germany).
So yes, maybe they did get it wrong, but in the wrong direction


..and as has been proven in the legal cases of 'petrolheads' mentioned above, the innocent are still being killed by them. Just because you are a petrolhead doesn't make you ANY safer on the roads. I include myself & yourself in that.

LG John

Perhaps true but I'm going by simple maths. Maybe once or twice every quarter I'll come accross another performance car driver who I feel is driving dangerously/erratically, etc. Nearly every day I'll see 'normal' drivers doing craaaaaaaaaaaaaazy things on the road. Example from the other day: I'm driving down the right lane behind a mondeo keeping a reasonable distance. We are doing about 80mph and there is a lorry ahead with a small micra behind it. At the last moment the micra chucks on an indicator and flings itself into the path of the Mondeo. The Mondeo driver jumped on the brakes to avoid an accident and shortly after we both passed the micra. The elderly women driving with her hands at 10 to 2 was focused on the road ahead and seeme utterly oblivious to what had just (about) occurred. I see this every day!

Just remembered another good one from Friday. I'm driving back alone the A1 towards musselburgh when I get caught up behind a Ford Ka doing 75mph in the outside lane. We rounded a corner on approach to the gatso camera and there is not a car in either lane in sight. I can see at least 400-500m of clear empty road. I want to get home faster and am willing to cruise at 85mph so as we approach the gatso I drop into the 'slow lane' and pull alongside as our speed is monitored. After we clear the camera I accelerate up to 85mph and remain in the correct lane for the next mile or so. Meanwhile the Ka driver (now 100m behind) is furiously flashing his/her lights whilst STILL in the outside lane (wtf!?). I MUST be the bad guy because I was driving the big, loud, flashy car. Dear god!

imlach

Yes, but perceived skill probably means you feel "comfortable" driving well in excess of the speed limit in the "twisties". Yes? No?

imlach

Yeah, although I often find it is 406 drivers

Seriously though, the car doesn't matter. They all have 4 wheels, an engine, and thousands of nuts, the biggest one being the one behind the wheel. I've been cut up by them all, fast or slow, young & old.