RoShamBo

iTrader: (1)

I want to do more cardio exercising as heavy weight training is adding to my mass but I am still carrying too much fat.
Don't mind if its bike, rowing machine etc (don't like running !) but I understand there is an ideal bpm rate that you should elevate your heart rate too then train for 20mins ? at a time.
Do you work it out or is there a set bpm for aerobic training for your age ? Plus is the 20 mins mentioned the best - I plan to do 3-4 sessions a week.

R.

George Sayers

I think you should aim for 65-75% of your maximum heart rate (this changes gradually with your age). Also, you need to decide if you want to burn fat or get fit as there are different approaches. I am not an expert by any means but believe that fat burning heart rate target is as above but cardio fitness will be slightly higher. 45 minutes seems to be a well subscribed to view for duration. I tend to use the cross trainer (low impact) as it has a built in guide for target heart rate and specific programmes for cardio fitness or fat burn.

Hope this helps.

G

SJ_Skyline

As a rule of thumb:

220 - your age = your maximum heart rate.

65% of your maximum to 85% of your maximum is your "zone".

At the bottom end of this zone you will burn more fat and at the top end you will burn more carbs.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

According to Chris Carmichael who is Lance Armstrongs trainer - to maximise fat burn you need to stay below the lactate/anaerobic threshold which is far lower than most programmes stipulate.

The easy test is that when you are training you should be able to maintain a conversation for at least two minutes without catching your breath. For most people this is 55% of maximum heartrate.

If you stay at that limit for 20 mins or more you will burn fat, a lot of it.

Anything above that heartrate you will burn sugar and start producing lactic acid which increases fatigue and limits exercise. You will also not burn any fat.

RoShamBo

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys, very helpful indeed, so aim for perhaps 55-60% of max heartrate for 30-45 minutes then?

55-60% seems a little low, but Lance aint exactly a chubby so not going to argue! I want to burn fat btw.

R.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Also training at this level is much less painful - indeed Chris is a very strong advocate of "pain, no gain"!!! (Although remembering his focus is endurance and fat burning not strength where the pain may well apply!)

Even more interesting he has signed up a number of motor racing clients as this increases their endurance and consquently their focus for long races.

http://www.trainright.com/folders.as...=display&uid=1

brihoppy

seriously...?!? 55% max hr is a good way to burn fat...? i never knew that...i know i wouldnt feel like i was getting any benefit after a run at 55%...guess thats why im 2 stone overweight but still fairly fit...

going to have to give this a try...

Mark Miwurdz

Sounds odd, but you will have to work hard to stay at that level. Buy yourself an entry-level heart monitor for about £25. You don't need one with all the **** and whistles, just one to tell you what your heart's doing. Do a few one hour sessions on the exercise bike at that rate and the fat will fall off you.

Here's a better way of calculating your target zone based on your MHR.

1. First thing in the morning, while still in bed, calculate your heart rate (HR).
2. Subtract your age in years from 220 to get you standard maximal HR.
3. Subtract the your morning HR from your standard maximal HR.
4. Multiply the result of step 3 by 0.60.
5. Multiply the result of step 3 by 0.70.
6. Add your morning HR to the result of step 4.
7. Add your morning HR to the result of step 5.
8. Your target HR training zone is between the two results of steps 6 and 7.

Cheers
Kav

Foot_Tapper

Here is another good site to calculate heart rates
http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/hrm1.htm

Depends on how far you want to take your training to really.
You can gradually burn as much as you want with the 65% Max, obv getting fitter. After a while you may feel you need a bit more, dunno up to the individual.
I was one of those nutters you see running around like a headless chicken.

After a while doing the base 65% aerobic stuff, i felt i needed more to become faster. So did interval training at 85% ish.
Obv the interval stuff is much shorter and these sessions should only be once or twice a week max and a dedicated session.
As said above the 65% workouts are aerobic give stamina and burn fat

The 85% max workouts, to an extent destroy the above because they drain the body and it needs to recuperate. But when rested your overall fitness level is raised.
Gradually for your 65% you will be able to do more work and the building blocks for the next interval training.
You not only lose fat, but muscle tone is increased, short and fast twitch muscles are both better conditioned.
It did work bloody well for me, but each to their own.
Have fun

brihoppy

yeah ive been doing alot of interval and steady state runs, and ive noticed that ive got alot fitter (apart from my current injury which has stopped me training ) but ive not lost alot of weight...if any...

ozzy

one word - diet

you have to burn calories and eat the right foods to lose weight. Spent 5 weeks climbing in Alaska on 5000-6000 calories per day and lost 8kg's of bodyweight. Difference is we spent 10-12hrs of the day actually climbing and only really stopping to stuff our faces, take on some fluids or admire the views. Came back with my 6-pack and have spent the past 5 months piling it back on

There's no real single key to success - it's a balance between the correct exercise, the appropriate diet and rest. Lance is skinny because he exercises a lot and although eats huge amounts of food, they are all used as fuel so he doesn't pile on the pounds (unless it's muscle).

kbsub

Two things .... eat less... exercise more

Its that simple !

brihoppy

of course thats the grossly oversimplified explanation but its not that simple though is it...? thats the whole point...some people are exercising more, and eating less, but theyre exercising wrongly for the results they want...

ozzy

diet is the thing people usually sacrifice (me included). You can be as fit as ****, with a poor diet but still be fat ('ish). I've trained with Triathletes and Ironmen competitors and they varied from the analy focused to those who just ate cr@p and trained hard. 9 times out of 10 though, the ones with the stricter diets were the skinny ones.

Genetics, age and metabolism play a large part for those that can eat less and exercise more. Some have to eat less of the right things, so it's not quite as simple as kbsub points out. It's certainly a start though

Tiggs

but if you only work out for 45 mins the pain of a higher heart rate doesnt apply......if 45 mins is the most you will commit you WILL loose more body fat with 45mins X 75% than you will at 55%

you may utilse more calories from carbs than fat during the training but that calorie depravation has to be filled from somewhere.

I lost more body fat (properly tested) doing 25mins of high intensity intervak training than i did doing 50 mins of "fat burning, in the zone jane fonda, hold a conversation, ***** workouts"

T

Foot_Tapper

How long have you been training for Bri ? and what does your routine look like.

It is the long runs ( usually in excess of 45 mins) that really contribute to weight loss.
Doesnt really matter how fast, you'll find your own pace to cope. Its all about staying on your feet for that period of time.
If your injury is a result of training... too much too soon springs to mind, or dodgy trainers.
If you havent already, I suggest lookin at some routines, not marathon ones, but say the 10k routines.
Here is something that I have probably used at some time.
There is always one longer run (the fat burner), but it is never more than a third of the total weekly mileage.
The weekly total never increases too much, as your body is always adjusting.
M T W T F S S total
3 2 4 2 4 rest 6 21
3 2 4 3 4 rest 7 23
3 3 4 3 4 rest 8 25
3 3 5 3 4 rest 8 26
4 3 5 3 4 rest 9 28
4 3 5 3 4 rest 9 28

mondays always slow and easy, after sundays aches
I would never do any interval stuff before completing these 6 weeks
building up. I used to do the intervals on wednesdays, and drop say the 5 miles completely.
my intervals used to be 4* 800 metres ( after a stretch n warm up)
at 85% max, resting between them until heart rate fallen to that of walking pace.
Oh god i'm visualizing buying trainers again

ozzy

I don't train to specific zones anymore. I split my training into Hard, Normal and Easy runs.

Hard is the interval stuff or a short b@lls-out run (up to 45mins)
Normal is my average running pace (1hr or so)
Easy is a slower, longer run (2hrs+)

A decent diet and exercise combo should maintain your weight IMHO. If I can't shift fat, then my diet is the first thing I look at.

The only reason I do long, slow runs is to build endurance and stamina into my legs.

Depends what you goals are - weightloss, fitness, healthly heart/lungs, etc..

brihoppy

feel like im hijcking this thread a bit...!!!

thing is, im happy with increasing my fitness...i can do that quite easily...and my diet is okay...but i was wondering why i wasnt losing as much weight as i was hoping...i thought training above my fat-burning zone would burn more fat, but it seems i need to be running at a lower hr in order to burn fat...

im going to give it a try and see what happens...

Foot_Tapper

One thing to remember is, muscle weighs more than fat.
I expect your lower body has more muscle than before, hence apparent weight loss. I bet your overall body fat % has decreased.
You will see the signs sooner or later, especially when the muscles in lower body have adjusted.
RoSham f'rinstance doesnt want to do too much aerobics of the running variety, as the upper body will also lose muscle as well as fat. Which is what he doesnt want.

ozzy

I do circuit training and some weights to keep my upper body strong and keep and "all-round" fitness level. If you see runners they're all skinny whippets up top.

As FT says, you should see the difference, but a skinfold caliper test would confirm if you're actually losing weight.

Adam M

trout,

this worries me.

I am desperately trying to lose weight now, and have been a firm follower of the low pulse thing, but my pulse will happily sit around 200 for about 50 minutes on the running machine if I feel like running for that long.

For me to keep my pulse in that zone for any length of time I can only walk fast.

My pulse is like an over centre spring, it either sits comfortably at a rest pulse of about 68 or sits at 180 all day long, I can't seem to find an exercise level that keeps it at say 120.

Brisk walking even will eventually have it at 170, but running is 180 maybe 190 max.

Its very odd, and no matter what i do, I can't change it.

Foot_Tapper

How are you taking your beats ? a pulse monitor ? is it dodgy ?

Without being rude, It may be that your cardiovasc system cant cope with anything more than a brisk walk at present due to the weight.
If your monitoring method is true, I would go and visit your doc and ask for a check up with a view to advice on the type of exercise u take and how much.
Things such as having a virus / cold etc will raise your rate a few beats naturally.

brihoppy

yeah, as soon as i posted it i knew i shouldve specified fat as thats what i meant...

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Tiggs,

I am glad that you have more expertise in this arena than the man that created the programme for the most successful endurance athelete of all time

On a more serious point - you are absolutely correct that high intensity will create a calorific deficit by burning carbs. The problem is that the metabolism of the body is designed to replace this deficit with ingested calories first rather than converting fat. So over time a controlled diet and a high intensity workout will lose weight - however it is likely to create greater levels of fatigue than a '***** workout'.

Of course if you have a high VO2 max then the level of your workout can be very high a la Armstrong - and that comes through repeated training.

Ultimately different programmes work for individuals - however generally the approach design above is true.

Adam,

you need to be tested for lactate threshold, VO2 max and CV health. What you describe sounds unqiue and challenging.

Rannoch

Little Miss WRX

Interesting about the lower heart rate and would suit me as I am trying to increase my stamina and lose about 5kg prior to the new football season starting in March.

The 50 minute regime would be a better aim and eventually to 90 mins (obviously due to the length of the games.

When in normal training with fellow referees the program follows the FIFA fitness tests which to be honest I don't think is much of a guide to how you should gear your training.

I get thrown off the heart rate guide when I need to take Ventolin.

Foot_Tapper

Little Miss, should be able to acheive your 5kg easily enuff.
being able to jog for 90 mins would be great, do you do any other stuff ?
When i used to play for a sunday team, some of the training involved running at faster pace (not sprinting) from edge of box to edge of box, jog back and do it about 4 times. Great as an additional to basic stamina work.
Good luck for season.

Little Miss WRX

Thanks Foot Tapper.

I do on average 4-6 games a weekend so usually more than 90 mins when the season is in full swing.

For training we sometimes do the bleep test which we have to hit level 11 on and then shuttle runs with a 12 minute jog around a circuit. For full feds training there is a good regime, but it is only once a week, I would ideally like to be training 3 times a week, but that would eat into any social life!

I have a home multi gym and an elliptical cross trainer (to avoid running and flaring up my shin splints) which I use every other day for approximately half an hour to an hour at a time. (Split time between both pieces of equipment).

As for other sports? Footie fanatic through and through.

I occasionally mountain bike.

crush her

I'm sure Dr Ferrari would have something to say about that
Armstrong is the most successful Tour de France rider that's all, Eddy is the man

Tiggs

Armstrongs a sissy

I was a personal trainer for years back when heart rate zones were all the thing.....i worked with a LOT of people using higher intesity heart rate than the "zone" stuff suggested - and saw good results everytime.

armstrong is a genetic freak and doing what he does is a good a guide as doing arnolds routine and hoping for 19 inch guns before your 19! (not sure which of those two is the more natural either )

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Watched a UFC programme the other day - a guy had to lose 20lbs by the next day. He managed 15lbs before he broke. Looked like they used the sauna heavily to cut-weight quick.