OllyK

...denial of treatment for self inflicted ailments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/4462310.stm

TelBoy

Got to say i broadly agree with this.

Drunken Bungle Whore

So you're going to have to go private for the operation to remove your head from your ****?

(Edited to say not aimed at Telboy)

lightning101

Including mentally ill, severely depressed people tel, who can't help but eat ?

Should they get a cut in tax and national insurance as well then ?

StickyMicky

where does it all end ?

when we are all perfect and have blue eyes and blonde hair?
have they banned the smokers yet

the moose

What's the percentage of people with a BMI>30? 30%? 40%?

And does this mean that such people get a tax rebate, as they contribute just as much as others to the NHS?

steffiraf

Dont agree with it at all. Employed obese people pay their national insurance like everyone else. They should target the unemployed wastes of time, who have never contributed in their lives. Check out A & E on a fri/sat night, bet you'll find 80% of the people in there claim benefits

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Although I don't entirely agree with this ruling. There is a strange point about this though.

If you can't be bothered to keep yourself healthy, then why should you expect others to keep you healthy?

Same should apply smokers, alcoholics, recreational drug users etc etc.

OllyK

The problem is where you draw the line. While I perhaps agree with your sentiment, how they actually implement is the bigger issue. If you're going to offer a free for all at the point of use health service then you can't start adopting a 2 tier system.

davegtt

maybe the gym would help?

Did I really say that, oops

OllyK

So what if you fail to take actions to keep yourself safe? We stop treating people who are in an accident that they could have avoided, mountain climbers, parachutists, people driving personal rather than public transport??

Who get's to make the decision on who is the deserving case?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Its already two tier though (unofficially): They already write off old people on account of being too old.

TelBoy

"Broadly" in that if it can be shown that their lifestyle has exacerbated the condition - let's see some evidence that they're trying to do something about it before assuming the NHS will treat them for any condition they happen to eat themselves into.

lightning101

Speeding car drivers, dangerous jobs (police, roofers, etc), should they all be denied it as well ?

OllyK

Not up to your usual standard today

OllyK

Define "old" both my Uncle and God Father had heart ops in their 70's.

davegtt

Agreed, but didnt you find this statement abit contradictary?

"People who are obese need education and help about healthy living. To deny someone surgery because they are obese, unless there is a clinical reason, is unfair."

So OK thets educate them about healthy living, no hang on theyre entitled to surgery though so whats the point in being healthy when they can cut the bad bits out after youve had your mcdonalds....

Strange

unclebuck

A spokeswoman for the Patients Association said: "People are obese for all sorts of reasons, though mainly through eating far too much pie..."

SJ_Skyline

It's just another step down the road towards privatisation.

EddScott

Quite right, fat people did it to themselves so serve 'em right.

I'm OK, I'm skinny so I've got no worries. I'm sure they'll operate on me when I need a new set of lungs or a new heart once the **** really start to get to work on my insides.

And I'm sure the doctors will be more than happy to re-attach my limbs etc after racing another Subaru and crashing my car into a hedge.

This country is a bag of poo and I'm off ASAP.

TelBoy

Edd, old arguments but logically flawed, if you think both are comparable. Smoking is self-inflicted, and yes, i'd also advocate withdrawal of automatic NHS rights to lung/throat cancer treatment for smokers. Why should *i* subsidise that?

But, unless you're psychotic, you don't intend to crash your car.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Well, on all dangerous sports event you sign a disclaimer saying that you are fully aware of the risks and dangers you are exposed to, so it's the persons choice and if they die, it's their own fault. BUT you, organisers, highways agency, car manufacturers and so on, in every sector do all that is possible to ensure all risks are a minimal as feasibly possible. In this blame claim culture anybody and every organsiation or company has no choice but to ensure minimal risks, which makes for interesting self regulation.

With diet however - who regulates it and controls it? It only goes as far as basic hygiene, but health concerns are only expressed as vaigue recomendations. McDonalds are certainly getting worried these days (and so they should), as blaim claim culture is now seeping into the food industry, forcing more regulation.

In the end of the day though, people should be held more accountable for the outcome of their own personal actions, if they can't even take care of their own body...then why on earth should they expect somebody else to do it for them? Especially when their personal health situation is avoidable.

Drunken Bungle Whore

Just out of interest, how many illnesses can be absolutely, 100%, cast iron guarantee, NOT be linked to any form of lifestyle choice?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

And that herein lies the point of where the line should be drawn

A BMI of 30 in this case. (whatever that means)

TelBoy

And how many can categorically be proven to be a DIRECT result of lifestyle choices, beyond any reasonable doubt? *They're* the ones we should be concentrating on. So those resulting from smoking, excessive drinking and eating for starters.

_RIP_

Comes back to why smokers etc are paying huge amounts of tax. If smokers are denied treatment then **** should cost 20p a packet. No vat on pies?

Drunken Bungle Whore

Wouldn't that cause a potential delay in treatment? How quickly would a case end up in court? People having to scientifically prove what caused their illness before they can get any treatment.

OllyK

I should think only the genetic stuff you're bourn with. Anything after that could be avoided with suitable isolation, filtered air, nutrient rich liquid diet etc

SJ_Skyline

Wouldn't that lead to mental problems?

TelBoy

"I've got lung cancer"

"Have you ever smoked"

"Yes"

"Here's the price list then"


I think it would be perfectly possible to draw up workable parameters. Of course though, it will never happen entirely, not until as SJ Skyline intimated, the whole thing is privatised anyway....