Tories Drinking in The Last Chance Saloon!
18 October 2005, 08:27 AM
#1
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Tories Drinking in The Last Chance Saloon!
Well, here we go ............ Tories about to start their choice of Leader.
Trouble is, of course, that not one of the candidates offered could possibly beat the great Leader Tony Blair .............. even the Labour parties SECOND choice, Mr Brown, would eat alive every one of them!!
Is there not one charismatic Leader within the whole Tory party??
I guess with the average age of the Tory Party Member standing at 72years old, they will NEVER appeal to the masses?
Shame I will never see another Tory Government ....... to those of you kiddies who have never experienced one - think yourselves VERY fortunate indeed!!
Pete
Trouble is, of course, that not one of the candidates offered could possibly beat the great Leader Tony Blair .............. even the Labour parties SECOND choice, Mr Brown, would eat alive every one of them!!
Is there not one charismatic Leader within the whole Tory party??
I guess with the average age of the Tory Party Member standing at 72years old, they will NEVER appeal to the masses?
Shame I will never see another Tory Government ....... to those of you kiddies who have never experienced one - think yourselves VERY fortunate indeed!!
Pete
18 October 2005, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
Same old broken record.
Les
Les
The Tories have given a brand new meaning to the phrase, "LOSS LEADER"!!!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Pete
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18 October 2005, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Well, here we go ............ Tories about to start their choice of Leader.
Trouble is, of course, that not one of the candidates offered could possibly beat the great Leader Tony Blair .............. even the Labour parties SECOND choice, Mr Brown, would eat alive every one of them!!
Is there not one charismatic Leader within the whole Tory party??
I guess with the average age of the Tory Party Member standing at 72years old, they will NEVER appeal to the masses?
Shame I will never see another Tory Government ....... to those of you kiddies who have never experienced one - think yourselves VERY fortunate indeed!!
Pete
Trouble is, of course, that not one of the candidates offered could possibly beat the great Leader Tony Blair .............. even the Labour parties SECOND choice, Mr Brown, would eat alive every one of them!!
Is there not one charismatic Leader within the whole Tory party??
I guess with the average age of the Tory Party Member standing at 72years old, they will NEVER appeal to the masses?
Shame I will never see another Tory Government ....... to those of you kiddies who have never experienced one - think yourselves VERY fortunate indeed!!
Pete
**
just an observation cpl jones, but labour lost four general elections on the trot: 79, 83, 87 & 92; spent 18 years in mostly abject opposition before re-shaping themselves to become electable. which in all honesty against major's conservative govt of 92-97 isn't really saying much.
the tories have lost only three general elections and been in opposition for 9 years only so far - 12 or so if you move forward to the next election in 2009. the broad view of respected political commentators (excluding you obviously!) is that something interesting is now happening in the tory camp, that a crossroads is being approached; that political alchemy might possibly be afoot.
so, never say never: politics is not set and runs in cycles. we may yet see the tories back in power in 2009 but 2013 is when we will very likely see them come back with, i suspect, david cameron as a seasoned but young leader at 46 and PM-elect. four years of gordon brown will bore to death the entire nation; after all, he is a boorish, parsimonious, dour, envious, charmless and humourless man - long term, a public relations liability.
anyway, we all know you're a troll; but we all know it's deliberate because you are an undercover tory simply trying to generate antipathy for NL. by cunningly behaving like one of its worst rash-round-the-neck stalinist acolytes: that squeaky NL tw@t the rt. hon. douglas alexander MP springs to mind; or perhaps the rt. hon. hazel blears MP, resident blairbot at the home office; or maybe even the rt. hon david "lightweight" lammy MP?
suggest you tone it down a little and you'll be a little more convincing .... and to be honest, even more entertaining.
keep up the hammy work!
18 October 2005, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Trouble is, of course, that not one of the candidates offered could possibly beat the great Leader Tony Blair ..............
Morning Pete
18 October 2005, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Holy Ghost
the broad view of respected political commentators (excluding you obviously!) is that something interesting is now happening in the tory camp, that a crossroads is being approached; that political alchemy might possibly be afoot.
Well yes, but then didn't they say that when Portillo had his shot? Caring Conservatism was going to win them the election ..... except that they got that complete idiot IDS instead.
If they go for DD it'll be the same thing again.
18 October 2005, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Trouble is, of course, that not one of the candidates offered could possibly beat the great Leader Tony Blair .............. even the Labour parties SECOND choice, Mr Brown, would eat alive every one of them!!
) tory supporter I'm almost completely with you on this. The only one who (IMO) has any chance of beating Brown at the next election is Clarke, and it's looking like he's going to fall by the wayside (sadly).I guess out of the other 3 i'd vote for Cameron, assuming he's still in the running when I get my chance to vote. But to be honest I can't see him, Davis or Fox winning the election next time.
Unless something happens like a spectacular economic crash, after which which everyone can rightfully blame Brown since by then he'll be the new PM. When (sorry - if) that happens even a nugget like you could lead us to victory.
18 October 2005, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Iwan
Usually I'd disagree with everything you say pete but as a (fellow ) tory supporter I'm almost completely with you on this. The only one who (IMO) has any chance of beating Brown at the next election is Clarke, and it's looking like he's going to fall by the wayside (sadly).
I guess out of the other 3 i'd vote for Cameron, assuming he's still in the running when I get my chance to vote. But to be honest I can't see him, Davis or Fox winning the election next time.
Unless something happens like a spectacular economic crash, after which which everyone can rightfully blame Brown since by then he'll be the new PM. When (sorry - if) that happens even a nugget like you could lead us to victory.
) tory supporter I'm almost completely with you on this. The only one who (IMO) has any chance of beating Brown at the next election is Clarke, and it's looking like he's going to fall by the wayside (sadly).I guess out of the other 3 i'd vote for Cameron, assuming he's still in the running when I get my chance to vote. But to be honest I can't see him, Davis or Fox winning the election next time.
Unless something happens like a spectacular economic crash, after which which everyone can rightfully blame Brown since by then he'll be the new PM. When (sorry - if) that happens even a nugget like you could lead us to victory.
18 October 2005, 11:37 AM
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Holy Ghost, yet again you've killed off any chance of a meaningful "response" from the feejit by raising the intellectual and factual bar to a level he doesn't even know exists. I'm not sure why you bother really, but it's entertaining when you do.
18 October 2005, 11:40 AM
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Lot in what Iwan says I think. I am suspicious of Cameron anyway, too close to the same type as Billy Boy.
He keeps whittling on about everything needing to be "modernised" which is the NL codeword for changing things around for the Government's convenience but to every one else's inconvenience!
Les
He keeps whittling on about everything needing to be "modernised" which is the NL codeword for changing things around for the Government's convenience but to every one else's inconvenience!
Les
18 October 2005, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by the moose
Well yes, but then didn't they say that when Portillo had his shot? Caring Conservatism was going to win them the election ..... except that they got that complete idiot IDS instead.
If they go for DD it'll be the same thing again.
If they go for DD it'll be the same thing again.
yes and no: when a party is politically spent, as the tories were by their stint in power, there's always optimistic talk of recovery. the pundits were wrong with portillo as it was just too soon for a realistic recovery. they should have known that it would take more than a kiss and cuddle and a bit of fanny-tickling from the ribena kid to renew a severely battered political party.
but recovery is inevitable: the tories have been shaking themselves like wet dogs for eight years now. no surprise there, they'd got themselves into a fearsome shambles. but it's long enough in the natural rhythm of politics to expect the house to start getting itself in order. after all, it took labour about the same amount of time - even a little longer - before kinnock started being realistic and began making the first of the sensible moves that ultimately got them to where they are today.
if the tories do the right thing and select cameron then it's game-on. a long game admittedly but game-on nonetheless. he's got X-factor and unfortunately, that's key these days. blair's [only] legacy if you like.
18 October 2005, 11:52 AM
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I thought Hague had X-factor, based on his oratory skills. And on that basis, he did.
Unfortunately, the public only saw an average looking, bald, monotone Northener, and they don't get elected easily these days.
Unfortunately, the public only saw an average looking, bald, monotone Northener, and they don't get elected easily these days.
18 October 2005, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
I thought Hague had X-factor, based on his oratory skills. And on that basis, he did.
Unfortunately, the public only saw an average looking, bald, monotone Northener, and they don't get elected easily these days.
Unfortunately, the public only saw an average looking, bald, monotone Northener, and they don't get elected easily these days.
**
thanks for your kind words tel. there's just something about psl/cpl jones/clive dunn [delete as applicable] that makes me want to persevere. its like having a thick scab on your knee you just can't help but want to pick at.
i liked hague a lot too - best parliamentarian of his generation who made mincemeat of all his opponents in the house. who in turn was made into mincemeat by the media. funny old world. but i reckon that he'll have a cabinet position in the next tory government when it arrives: foreign secretary. and he's not a lawyer.
ultimately though, the public gets what it deserves: there's no accounting for mass stupidity and mass apathy.
US presidential election 2008? my money's on hillary clinton Vs condi rice. no, seriously. think about it. the two smartest people in america today. the two highest profile democrat and republican politicians ...
Last edited by Holy Ghost; 18 October 2005 at 12:26 PM.
18 October 2005, 12:33 PM
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They could do a lot worse than Hilary Clinton, although voting for a woman president would be a huge leap for many septics. Has Jesse Jackson given up all hope now? And Schwarzennegger, is he eligible yet?
18 October 2005, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Holy Ghost
**
yes and no: when a party is politically spent, as the tories were by their stint in power, there's always optimistic talk of recovery. the pundits were wrong with portillo as it was just too soon for a realistic recovery. they should have known that it would take more than a kiss and cuddle and a bit of fanny-tickling from the ribena kid to renew a severely battered political party.
but recovery is inevitable: the tories have been shaking themselves like wet dogs for eight years now. no surprise there, they'd got themselves into a fearsome shambles. but it's long enough in the natural rhythm of politics to expect the house to start getting itself in order. after all, it took labour about the same amount of time - even a little longer - before kinnock started being realistic and began making the first of the sensible moves that ultimately got them to where they are today.
if the tories do the right thing and select cameron then it's game-on. a long game admittedly but game-on nonetheless. he's got X-factor and unfortunately, that's key these days. blair's [only] legacy if you like.
yes and no: when a party is politically spent, as the tories were by their stint in power, there's always optimistic talk of recovery. the pundits were wrong with portillo as it was just too soon for a realistic recovery. they should have known that it would take more than a kiss and cuddle and a bit of fanny-tickling from the ribena kid to renew a severely battered political party.
but recovery is inevitable: the tories have been shaking themselves like wet dogs for eight years now. no surprise there, they'd got themselves into a fearsome shambles. but it's long enough in the natural rhythm of politics to expect the house to start getting itself in order. after all, it took labour about the same amount of time - even a little longer - before kinnock started being realistic and began making the first of the sensible moves that ultimately got them to where they are today.
if the tories do the right thing and select cameron then it's game-on. a long game admittedly but game-on nonetheless. he's got X-factor and unfortunately, that's key these days. blair's [only] legacy if you like.
Whilst Gordon Brown may not have much in the way of charisma, it's still more than DD has; he'd probably still win against Cameron, who, let's be honest, is popular only because he's unknown, young, and not a total monkey. Hague would be a million times better than any of the current crop, but as you say, it just wasn't the right time.
I'm still not convinced that the Conservative Party are ready to govern again. They've gone quiet on a lot of things - asylum, crime, taxes - where the Labour Party have effectively stolen their policies, and Europe won't be a vote-winner either. Just having a poster-boy for the blue-rinse brigade won't be enough; they need to give people a reason to vote for them, something more than just a desire for change.
The tipping point for the Conservatives was sleaze; not the only reason they lost, to be sure, but the trigger factor. Add to that the fact that Major had no real personal authority, the fact that they'd been around for years, and the rebirth of the Labour Party, and the change was inevitable. I simply don't see the Tories rebuilding in the same way, nor a specific topic which will swing the polls by that crucial 3-4%.
Edited to say: the Americans? Definitely Clinton, but Condoleeza Rice? No chance - a woman's hard enough, but a black woman? No way.
Last edited by the moose; 18 October 2005 at 12:45 PM.
18 October 2005, 01:35 PM
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Obviously, the Tories are currently un-electable ....... wasn't too long ago that Labour was voted in AGAIN
More people want Labour in power than they want the Tories in power ....... proven by a general election
ScoobyNet is just full of kiddies who cannot remember the Tories in power ... luckily, the country at large know better!!
Pete
More people want Labour in power than they want the Tories in power ....... proven by a general election
ScoobyNet is just full of kiddies who cannot remember the Tories in power ... luckily, the country at large know better!!
Pete
18 October 2005, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by the moose
I don't deny that Cameron needs to be taken seriously, but it's more likely (we'll see tonight whether I'm close) that the party will go for David Davis, having kicked Clarke out on the first ballot.
Whilst Gordon Brown may not have much in the way of charisma, it's still more than DD has; he'd probably still win against Cameron, who, let's be honest, is popular only because he's unknown, young, and not a total monkey. Hague would be a million times better than any of the current crop, but as you say, it just wasn't the right time.
I'm still not convinced that the Conservative Party are ready to govern again. They've gone quiet on a lot of things - asylum, crime, taxes - where the Labour Party have effectively stolen their policies, and Europe won't be a vote-winner either. Just having a poster-boy for the blue-rinse brigade won't be enough; they need to give people a reason to vote for them, something more than just a desire for change.
The tipping point for the Conservatives was sleaze; not the only reason they lost, to be sure, but the trigger factor. Add to that the fact that Major had no real personal authority, the fact that they'd been around for years, and the rebirth of the Labour Party, and the change was inevitable. I simply don't see the Tories rebuilding in the same way, nor a specific topic which will swing the polls by that crucial 3-4%.
Edited to say: the Americans? Definitely Clinton, but Condoleeza Rice? No chance - a woman's hard enough, but a black woman? No way.
Whilst Gordon Brown may not have much in the way of charisma, it's still more than DD has; he'd probably still win against Cameron, who, let's be honest, is popular only because he's unknown, young, and not a total monkey. Hague would be a million times better than any of the current crop, but as you say, it just wasn't the right time.
I'm still not convinced that the Conservative Party are ready to govern again. They've gone quiet on a lot of things - asylum, crime, taxes - where the Labour Party have effectively stolen their policies, and Europe won't be a vote-winner either. Just having a poster-boy for the blue-rinse brigade won't be enough; they need to give people a reason to vote for them, something more than just a desire for change.
The tipping point for the Conservatives was sleaze; not the only reason they lost, to be sure, but the trigger factor. Add to that the fact that Major had no real personal authority, the fact that they'd been around for years, and the rebirth of the Labour Party, and the change was inevitable. I simply don't see the Tories rebuilding in the same way, nor a specific topic which will swing the polls by that crucial 3-4%.
Edited to say: the Americans? Definitely Clinton, but Condoleeza Rice? No chance - a woman's hard enough, but a black woman? No way.
fair points - we'll see over time i guess. it's the only way to judge how moods change. mood of the people, mood of the media. outside their circle of worship, NL's running very low on gas. without wales or scotland they're sunk: the tories took england by a clear margin. that's an undeniable start ....
as to the next US election; never say never. it's an american trait to hold off and hold off and hold off and then jumpinwithbothfeetandsplashingallthewateroutofthep oolandsurpriseeveryone. from what i've read, i'm not convinced that americans see rice in terms of black and white; just that like or loathe, she is just about the sharpest tool in the box ...
Last edited by Holy Ghost; 18 October 2005 at 01:43 PM.
18 October 2005, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Yadda..yadda...same old ***** bollox...yadda...yadda...more of the same old bollox.....yadda...yadda.. oh how I wish I had in imagination....yadda...yadda.....
Pete
Pete