mr & mrs carlos uk300

As above, doing 67mph in a 50zone on a A690 road. Been driving for 14 yrs never had any convictions, never been pulled or nothing. So my question is, what happens now? it says on the letter if i don't reply i could be fined upto a £1000 and 3 points, does this mean when i do reply i won't receive any points or do you receive points regardless? if so how does this affect your insurance?

Also on that stretch of road there's signs for camera's but no camera's visible and i've travelled along that same road thousands of times out of the speed limit So asumed there's no camera's but on that day i never seen any police, are they allowed to hide so you can't see you?


Mrs C

brybusa

Welcome to the club...!

3 points wont make much difference(if any) to your insurance..then again your 17MPH over the limit, so it might be more(?)

You’ve got the stomach for it you can try various “tactics” and try to wangle out of it..A few are successful but as its your first conviction you may as well take it on the chin, up to you though!

Can they hide?..Well there nicking people by helicopter/aircraft and currently trialling cameras inserted into cats eyes , so Id call that pretty sneaky, if not hiding!

mr & mrs carlos uk300

Fair enough, i hold my hands up, but what gets me so fecking is when coppers get caught doing 159mph and are let off with it. I have a relative works for the police, do ya think if i mention this i'll get let off. lol

mgcvk

In cats eyes bloody hell. Surely they can't accurately track your speed from a moving aircraft?

Rewolf

This site has some good advice about what to do when you get a NIP:

http://www.pepipoo.com/

mr & mrs carlos uk300

Cheers Rewolf, i'll look into that.

brybusa

Oh yes they can, then they call in the ground troops to pull you over

If you venture near the Cat n Fiddle(Derbys) you'll see the warning signs saying SPEED ENFORCEMENT BY AIR

North Wales is another and the catseyes are being trialed in Scotland

Its worse in Aus, they put camera's in wheelies bins to leave em on the pavement snapping away all day....

Trashman

Never been pulled eh?

Speed camera signs - I always thought it was just a ploy to get people to slow down but all speed traps have to have a sign at the start. If it is a "approved" (regularly used) one (by the mobile vans) it will usually have a fixed sign. The mobile ones are getting much more prevalent so if you see a camera sign, be on your guard for the next (I think) 0.1 - 0.3 miles. If a mobile van pulls up in a non permanent location, they still have to put out a sign - these are usually quite big freestanding tatty looking things that should catch your eye. So to the one on the A303 couple of weeks back

However, if the police i.e. a patrol vehicle is checking speeds (regardless of if they are mobile or parked), there does not have to be a sign.

Another intersting point is they (mobile vans) are only allowed to target vehicles that they believe to be speeding and only within the speed trap itself, even though they could target you easily outside of the trap. So technically you could be above the limt as you approach but as long as you are not over once in the trap you are OK.

mr & mrs carlos uk300

Hiya TM, it wasnt a mobile van it must have been a camera, the road is a dual carriageway not in a built up area, but where the 50zone is it's a bit of a blackspot. There is fixed camera signs there, has been for years but i've travelled up and down that road for years over the limit and nothing's ever come of it. Think i'll buy my self a road angel.

BTW were you at the NBO yesterday, i was, it was fecking freezing, good day tho.

Trashman

Nope Was Swissolling the car - part 2 (Part 1 was Saturday with handwash and clay bar) Aboslutely gleaming now

bzz

I agree with brybusa here. If you fill in your NIP you will get a 'conditional offer' of 3 points and a £60 fine. This generally applies as long as you are less than 30mph over the speed limit. I had an NIP for 52 in a 30 zone, i chose to try and 'wangle' out of it, but ended up with 5 points and a £235 fine instead, because it went to court. In court they can give you up to 6 points for ANY speeding offence!! So my advice is, fill it in and take the 3 points and £60 fine!! (especially as its your first one!!) I wish i'd just filled in mine, instead of trying to be 'smart'......

Vlad

If you sign the NIP to say that you were driving, you're having your human rights violated. There are people taking this issue to the European Court of Human Rights now. Seems crazy that you can commit murder or robbery and they have to prove it, but for speeding you have to admit to it or you get in even deeper ****. So much for you right to silence.

If you do sign and send the NIP, state that you believe that you are having your human rights violated on it and take a photocopy. If the people in Europe win the case, you may be able to get any conviction overturned.

Trashman

When I received a NIP, the Q&A on the back specifically mentioned this "Are my rights being compromised " etc. "no" is the emphatic answer. By declaring the driver, I don't see how you are violating your rights anyway. Never understood that point - after all, they are not actually prosecuting at that point are they? To take your example, if someone was shot by your gun I think it would be reasonable for the police to ask who was pointing it at the time? IMHO

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Speed inforcement by air, that makes me sick ( unless they target built up/school areas)

For feeks sake there isnt enough money to keep air ambulances flying, but they can do this. I know some smart ar$e is gonna say air ambulance lift a lot of rta victims ( possibly due to speeding), i wonder how many people would have lived if that chopper was picking up hurt people, rather than nabbing speeders.

Cant even say its a revenue stream now cos it costs thousands to keep a chopper in the air.


My rant over



Cookie

mr & mrs carlos uk300

Got no Q&A booklet or anything with the NIP, just the NIP & an addressed envelope, that was it, i thought i would have something sent with information on what to do such as, what i mentioned above, but nothing.

Vlad

The point is, if you shoot someone and the police ask you if you did it, you can remain silent and force them to prove it. If you speed, and the police ask you if you did it and you remain silent, they prosecute you more severely for not answering. The right to silence is a basic international human right that our current government has taken away.

Trashman

OK, I see where you're coming from - but take my post literally. My gun is used to shoot someone but the police don't know who pointed it. If it was my gun and I refused to tell them who was in charge at the time, then surely I could be charged for obstruction or something similar?

Anyway, I thought completion of the NIP did not admit guilt, only identified the driver. Accepting the FPN and points (conditional offer?) is when you admit guilt? If at the point they make the offer you disagree, then you can say nothing and get them to prove it? If I've got this completeley *** about face I apologise but that is the way it seems to me?

Scratch

iTrader: (1)

For good advice, and lots of get out possibilities go look here http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/, or more specifically here http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_...ge/The_Law.htm

JPS3290

Hi. Im guessing from the road name and your description this is the A690 between Carville round about along past West/East Raintion, houghton cut and towards Doxyford roundabout??

If so there is no fixed camera's on there but there has always been a regular camera van there mate. You must just of been VERY VERY lucky to of never been travelling on that stretch at the time.

The common places the van sits on the Durham stretch (durham constabulary area) is were you come off the carville roundabout past the ramside and up the bank, as you get to the top the van sits in the side next to the row of houses where that hotel/restaurant burnt down.

On the opposite side theres often a marked police car sits and uses vascar for getting cars coming in from the other direction using markings on the road.

On the sunderland part of the road the van generally sits just before the Reg vardys garage on the side with the ferraris getting people who have just come up the 3 laned bank past houghton cut which used to be 70 but dropped to 50 last year. You also sometimes see a police car at the top of the bank in the little layby with a handgun as people bomb up the bank.

Thats one stretch of road im always careful on. To be fair theres been a fair few fatals specially near the reg vardys junction.

Sorry to hear about the ticket. I thought i got done there 3-4 weeks ago. Although being careful i noticed the camera van (which are poorly marked) and looked at the speedo reading about 54-55. No NIP although i was probably only doing 50-51 giving for inaccuracies.

Eprom

Follow the advice from scratch, there is lots of advice from that site, got caught myself 36mph in a thirty zone. There are ways around the system, but be prepared to spend **** loads of money in doing so.
Could send it back un signed then it's not admissible in court, or could say you cannot remember who was driving. I bit the bullet payed the £60.00 and three points.

bzz

The 'sending it back unsigned' loophole has been closed firmly mate!! I know because i tried it, and ended up with 5 points and £235 instead of 3 points and £60. Bar-stewards!!

Scratch

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I expected that one had probably gone by now. But there is some good basic advice about how soon the NIP should be submitted and all that kind of stuff.

Also, is it a company car ? In which case is it used by more than 1 person ? If it's a rear facing camera you could claim not to know who was driving on that occassion as you don't keep comprehensive records of driver......

JPS3290

Responsibility always falls on the registered keeper of the vehicle and if you declare not to know who was driving then that person gets the points/fine. The owner should always know who they are lending the car to and check they are covered legally to drive it and the Road Traffic Act covers this as plenty of people try it on.

Bit like being caught drink driving and refusing to give a breath test or blood test. You get the same if generally not more points/fine for refusing to cooperate.

I think to be fair with the guy 67 in a 50 is quite over the limit so not much chance getting off with that although i do agree with him its a dual carriage way the entire stretch of the road so seems a little slow. Its only because of the odd dodgy junction which wouldnt be so bad if some idiots looked before crossing a dual carriageway! If you have getting away without being caught on that road for quite a while i think you have done bloody damn well because i travel it about 15-20 times a month and see the camera van about half that, weekends being the days to watch for. Might as well take it on the chin and think of all the other times you have been lucky!!

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Firstly visit WWW.pepipoo.com and join the fightback forum. This website covers all legal obligation/requirements, plus fun ways to fight back!

It is the responsibility of the registered keeper to show reasonable diligence in trying to identify the driver, however there is a legal defence in the RTA1988 sec 172 para 4 which says

(4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.

It is not a legal reqiurement to keep a log or know who was driving your vehicle at all times, that is one of the reasons why para 4 section exists.

The para 4 defence is probably the most sucessful defence if you geniunely dont know who was driving. Warning, if you do know and get found out then the people involved run the risk of perjury /and or perverting the course of justice.


Andy

JPS3290

So for the sake of 3 points and £60 IMO i would look at it as i broke the limit and got caught so time to just pay up and think of the times you got away with it.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

That is why the scammers are so successful, they work on the fact that most people just want an easy life. It is a fact that these laser/ radar devices can give erroneous readings. If you are on 6 or 9 points and your living depends on you being able to drive then it is no laughing matter. Everybody needs to fight each alleged speeding offence, even the first one, get the evidence and exercise their legal right for the courts to prove the offence.

Andy

JPS3290

I wasn't laughing, but if i was on 6-9 points thats surely more reason to stick to the speed limit and be more careful. I do agree if its worth contesting then definitely go for it but from people i know wo have tried this they generally ended up worse off with more court costs to pay and the hassle of going to court.

Its definitely annoying when cops get off with doing 150+ speeds

Back on the subject of the A690 though, the last van i saw on there was white with orange lights near the rear of the roof with a little reflective stuff on the back and something on the side like "Speed enforcement van. Think!". Most people think they are council workers.

ALso be aware of the camera van thats situated in the middle of the A1 near Washington services just about everyday while the road works have been there. It a 50 limit and it generally rotates each day between north and south bound traffic. LOADS of people have been caught and its a simple plain white van with a bit of writing on the side and what looks like motorway maintainance reflective stickers on the rear, not the usual police livery.

NicHines

I followed advice on Pepipoo following reciept of a NIP. It cost me nothing and I have 0 points.

mr & mrs carlos uk300

Cheers JPS, it said on the NIP A690/ durham/stoneygate so i'm assuming it was at Reg Vardy the biggest blackspot on that stretch of road, i think. Anyways i,ve held my hands up and returned the NIP today so just have to see what happens now. TW@TS


Mrs C

JPS3290

Yea the Reg Vardys site is the likely place if you never saw the van because its so well tucked up under the trees and near the hedge its difficult to spot. The other places you would spot the van but by then its got you, at least then you'd know what to expect. Bad luck