"Pay as you go road charges" are on the way.
05 June 2005, 09:47 AM
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"Pay as you go road charges" are on the way.
So now we know. The Gov has admitted it proposes to bring in these road charges which could they say be up to £1.34/mile at peak times.
Funny how this was'nt mentioned before the election isnt it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4610755.stm
Chip
Funny how this was'nt mentioned before the election isnt it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4610755.stm
Chip
05 June 2005, 10:00 AM
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It was discussed on here in some detail before the election :-)
The ultimate aim of this is to remove "socially divisive" private transport from the roads and the reason this announcement has been made so far in advance of their implementation date is because they want to fit your car with "enabling technology." The next announcement is that you will need to fit your car with a satellite tracking system or it will be scrapped and this will be followed by "Intelligent Speed Adaptation" (ISA). Interestingly I heard that the road pricing my be tested in Leeds which is the same place as is currently testing ISA, I wonder what the connection is. The mapping of the UK for ISA will complete in September of this year.
The ultimate aim of this is to remove "socially divisive" private transport from the roads and the reason this announcement has been made so far in advance of their implementation date is because they want to fit your car with "enabling technology." The next announcement is that you will need to fit your car with a satellite tracking system or it will be scrapped and this will be followed by "Intelligent Speed Adaptation" (ISA). Interestingly I heard that the road pricing my be tested in Leeds which is the same place as is currently testing ISA, I wonder what the connection is. The mapping of the UK for ISA will complete in September of this year.
05 June 2005, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by davyboy
According to the BBC report "most people will be in favour of this".
Dave
Dave
Chip
05 June 2005, 10:16 AM
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I've just submitted my thoughts (along the same line as hedgehog's) on the BBC site.... although whether they will pass "censorship" I don't know. I suggest everyone does the same, the public need to know what they have to look forward to!
05 June 2005, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip
If it was carried out in a fair and sensible way then I myself would be in favour as well. But I cant honestly say that I believe it will be.
As you have already read, perhaps, in my post on "carbon cards" from about 4 days back you are also going to be taxed and restricted on your use of fuel, heating oil, holiday flights and the like. Each year you will have a "carbon" allowance and you will have to decide if you use this to fill up your car or take the family on holiday. So, fuel tax isn't going away even if they might make it look like it will.
This is Stalinist control at its most extreme and motorists must stand up against it and fight it in every way open to them. Not to do so will almost certainly result in very extreme restrictions upon your access to private transport and, even, on your ability to go on holiday or heat your home. Tracking your car, automatically controling your speed, controling your access to some roads and areas, limiting your access to "carbon," and making you pay for all this control and persecution are all processes which are interlinked and to give in to any of them will ensure that you no longer have access to "socially divisive" private transport.
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05 June 2005, 10:39 AM
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If anyone has a copy of 'On The Road', please look at the front page. It is quite comical. There is an article about how commuters are to be priced off public transport due to overcrowding and below is an article about road charging!
They really are fleecing us big style from every angle. Be prepared to bend over and take it from behind!
They really are fleecing us big style from every angle. Be prepared to bend over and take it from behind!
05 June 2005, 10:48 AM
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I recently wrote to my MP about ISA and how I object to its introduction. He didn't seem to know much about it and sent my letter to the DoT. He has now been ousted and we now have a Conservative candidate - I will be writing to her soon to ask her what her views of the whole system is.
Here is a copy of the letter I received back from the DoT:
Dear Tony
Thank you for your letter dated 29th March on behalf of one of your constituents about research into intelligent speed adaptation (ISA) being undertaken by Leeds University.
I can confirm that this Department is sponsoring Leeds University to carry out research into ISA which would enable the speed of a vehicle to be kept to the speed limit of the road on which it is travelling. Signals transmitted by Global Positioning Satellites (GPS) provide the vehicle information about its position on the road. Systems on board the vehicle then determine the speed of the vehicle according to the speed limit. Various forms of ISA are possible, ranging from an advisory system, where the driver is simply informed of the correct speed limit, to a ‘mandatory’ system where the vehicle cannot exceed the speed limit in force.
Our current research uses 20 ordinary production cars fitted with an ISA system. The car will stay within the speed limit automatically unless the driver brakes, stops accelerating, or opts out of the system (he can turn it on or off as he chooses). The aim is to study driver behaviour over time to gain a better understanding of how drivers interact with ISA systems. A report on the findings of the trial will be published.
We have no plans to mandate the use of ISA: it will be for industry to take forward the technology in response to consumer demand. Many consumers, whether vehicle fleet operators or private motorists, may have considerable interest in the potential benefits of such a system, e.g. lower fuel consumption, avoidance of speeding ‘tickets’, improved road safety.
However, we appreciate that governments may have a role to play in enabling technologies such as this to move forward, particularly, in relation to providing the digital speed limit information needed for such a system to operate. A comprehensive national speed limit database would be required in order to make ISA generally available. We are therefore currently looking at ways in which a digital speed limit map might best be facilitated. Such a map could be useful not only for ISA but also in connection with other road safety issues.
I hope this is helpful.
DAVID JAMIESON
Here is a copy of the letter I received back from the DoT:
Originally Posted by Department of Transport MP David Jamieson
Dear Tony
Thank you for your letter dated 29th March on behalf of one of your constituents about research into intelligent speed adaptation (ISA) being undertaken by Leeds University.
I can confirm that this Department is sponsoring Leeds University to carry out research into ISA which would enable the speed of a vehicle to be kept to the speed limit of the road on which it is travelling. Signals transmitted by Global Positioning Satellites (GPS) provide the vehicle information about its position on the road. Systems on board the vehicle then determine the speed of the vehicle according to the speed limit. Various forms of ISA are possible, ranging from an advisory system, where the driver is simply informed of the correct speed limit, to a ‘mandatory’ system where the vehicle cannot exceed the speed limit in force.
Our current research uses 20 ordinary production cars fitted with an ISA system. The car will stay within the speed limit automatically unless the driver brakes, stops accelerating, or opts out of the system (he can turn it on or off as he chooses). The aim is to study driver behaviour over time to gain a better understanding of how drivers interact with ISA systems. A report on the findings of the trial will be published.
We have no plans to mandate the use of ISA: it will be for industry to take forward the technology in response to consumer demand. Many consumers, whether vehicle fleet operators or private motorists, may have considerable interest in the potential benefits of such a system, e.g. lower fuel consumption, avoidance of speeding ‘tickets’, improved road safety.
However, we appreciate that governments may have a role to play in enabling technologies such as this to move forward, particularly, in relation to providing the digital speed limit information needed for such a system to operate. A comprehensive national speed limit database would be required in order to make ISA generally available. We are therefore currently looking at ways in which a digital speed limit map might best be facilitated. Such a map could be useful not only for ISA but also in connection with other road safety issues.
I hope this is helpful.
DAVID JAMIESON
05 June 2005, 11:09 AM
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I had a similar letter back from the DfT the first time I wrote to my MP (Gerald Howarth, Conservative). It's a pretty standard response, though the wording was different - so at least it's not just a copy of the same letter. Someone's had to think about it for a minute or two.
My MP retained his seat after the election, so I'm not 100% sure what the benefit would be of my writing to him a third time on the same subject. However, if you have a different MP then there's no harm at all in writing again.
As before, I'm more than happy to help out anyone else who would like help writing to their MP on this subject. Now the government has a reduced majority, its ability to push such controversial measures through Parliament is somewhat reduced. So, it IS worth trying to convince yours, especially if they represent the Opposition.
Hedgehog, I hate to say it but over the time you've been posting, you seem to have changed from being generally helpful and well-informed, to paranoid and defeatest. Saying that "you are also going to be taxed and restricted on your use of fuel, heating oil, holiday flights and the like" is a worst-case assumption, and "This is Stalinist control at its most extreme" is just plain offensive. Please, don't give the anti-car lobby the ammunition - they're the ones that need to be seen as laughable.
My MP retained his seat after the election, so I'm not 100% sure what the benefit would be of my writing to him a third time on the same subject. However, if you have a different MP then there's no harm at all in writing again.
As before, I'm more than happy to help out anyone else who would like help writing to their MP on this subject. Now the government has a reduced majority, its ability to push such controversial measures through Parliament is somewhat reduced. So, it IS worth trying to convince yours, especially if they represent the Opposition.
Hedgehog, I hate to say it but over the time you've been posting, you seem to have changed from being generally helpful and well-informed, to paranoid and defeatest. Saying that "you are also going to be taxed and restricted on your use of fuel, heating oil, holiday flights and the like" is a worst-case assumption, and "This is Stalinist control at its most extreme" is just plain offensive. Please, don't give the anti-car lobby the ammunition - they're the ones that need to be seen as laughable.
05 June 2005, 11:49 AM
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I'm not against road charging. Bear in mind that us Scooby drivers are probably paying around 15p per mile in fuel duty and road fund licence (based on 12000 miles pa) so as long as my average costs per mile don't increase, I'm a happy bunny. BUT I am dead against satellite tracking and enforced ISA with every fibre of my being.
05 June 2005, 11:58 AM
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Just what you can expect from an Orwellian bunch of control freaks who really want to know where you are at all times and what you are doing so that they can control it.
The future looks frightening!
Les
The future looks frightening!
Les
05 June 2005, 12:04 PM
#14
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When is a government going to stop thinking about continually fleecing private motorists as the only solution to congestion. Why don't they think about taxing the public transport owners who stubbornly refuse to contemplate any form of co-ordination between their various services
Maybe if buses were properly maintained, ran on time, were cleaned once in a while, and most importantly driven by people who understood the concept of consideration of other road users, people would consider using them. I'm amazed the average bus passenger survives their journey, what with the risk of typhoid from the seats, CO poisoning from the engine fumes or concussion from being thrown about inside as the driver attempts yet another high speed slalom through a busy town centre
05 June 2005, 12:06 PM
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Big Brother.
Might be time to look at leaving this country....
1. Can't afford a house
2. Won't be able to run the scooby...at least not without having my movements tracked.
3. it's full of Chavs!
Might be time to look at leaving this country....
1. Can't afford a house
2. Won't be able to run the scooby...at least not without having my movements tracked.
3. it's full of Chavs!
05 June 2005, 12:15 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by AndyC_772
Hedgehog, I hate to say it but over the time you've been posting, you seem to have changed from being generally helpful and well-informed, to paranoid and defeatest. Saying that "you are also going to be taxed and restricted on your use of fuel, heating oil, holiday flights and the like" is a worst-case assumption, and "This is Stalinist control at its most extreme" is just plain offensive. Please, don't give the anti-car lobby the ammunition - they're the ones that need to be seen as laughable.
And the best bit, it won't cost the government a bean, you will be forced to buy both the tracker and the ID card, because you will be unable to get either car insurance or a job without them
The future's bleak, the future's Red
05 June 2005, 12:17 PM
#18
ahem
Originally Posted by Leslie
Just what you can expect from an Orwellian bunch of control freaks who really want to know where you are at all times and what you are doing so that they can control it.
The future looks frightening!
Les
The future looks frightening!
Les
Suresh
p.s. don't agree with tracking the individual but agree with blind political bias on this site even less!
05 June 2005, 12:23 PM
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Excellent News!!!
Get the chavs and poor off the road so I and the other wealthy can drive our cars without the scum blocking up the pathways to heaven!!
Pete
Get the chavs and poor off the road so I and the other wealthy can drive our cars without the scum blocking up the pathways to heaven!!
Pete
05 June 2005, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Excellent News!!!
Get the chavs and poor off the road so I and the other wealthy can drive our cars without the scum blocking up the pathways to heaven!!
Pete
Get the chavs and poor off the road so I and the other wealthy can drive our cars without the scum blocking up the pathways to heaven!!
Pete
Tony needs to keep the scum who vote for him happy afterall...
Last edited by ajm; 05 June 2005 at 12:35 PM.
05 June 2005, 12:32 PM
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Here comes the troll to f**k up the debate. Why is this idiot not banned??
05 June 2005, 12:33 PM
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So how is this going to benefit people who actually have to use the motorways to get to work on time?? I had to use the M25 (round trip 60 miles) a day to get to where I worked - they wouldn't pay for me getting to the office!
People can't afford to live close to where they work (nor may they want to) so have to travel. Now they're going to get fleeced because they need to get to work!
Won't businesses that exist around the home counties suffer as people find out how much they have to pay to even get to work (even AFTER car-sharing)?!?
PS - I'll probabaly be better off under the proposal however, the general state of business after it may well kill everything.
People can't afford to live close to where they work (nor may they want to) so have to travel. Now they're going to get fleeced because they need to get to work!
Won't businesses that exist around the home counties suffer as people find out how much they have to pay to even get to work (even AFTER car-sharing)?!?
PS - I'll probabaly be better off under the proposal however, the general state of business after it may well kill everything.
05 June 2005, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by scoob_babe
So how is this going to benefit people who actually have to use the motorways to get to work on time?? I had to use the M25 (round trip 60 miles) a day to get to where I worked - they wouldn't pay for me getting to the office!
People can't afford to live close to where they work (nor may they want to) so have to travel. Now they're going to get fleeced because they need to get to work!
Won't businesses that exist around the home counties suffer as people find out how much they have to pay to even get to work (even AFTER car-sharing)?!?
PS - I'll probabaly be better off under the proposal however, the general state of business after it may well kill everything.
People can't afford to live close to where they work (nor may they want to) so have to travel. Now they're going to get fleeced because they need to get to work!
Won't businesses that exist around the home counties suffer as people find out how much they have to pay to even get to work (even AFTER car-sharing)?!?
PS - I'll probabaly be better off under the proposal however, the general state of business after it may well kill everything.
05 June 2005, 12:40 PM
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Actually, if you've seen M. Night Shyamalan's film 'The Village' it gives a pretty good vision of how the nutcrunchers want everyone to live.
05 June 2005, 12:41 PM
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05 June 2005, 12:41 PM
#28
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Remember that they will abandon the Car Tax and Fuel Tax!!
Use the car and pay for the use - sounds really fair to me!!
Why should I pay 3 sets of Car Tax when I only drive ONE car at a time!!
Thats why I said 'Excellent News' Spring Heeled Jack!! You give your opinion, allow others to give theirs, yes??
Pete
Use the car and pay for the use - sounds really fair to me!!
Why should I pay 3 sets of Car Tax when I only drive ONE car at a time!!
Thats why I said 'Excellent News' Spring Heeled Jack!! You give your opinion, allow others to give theirs, yes??
Pete
05 June 2005, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pslewis
Remember that they will abandon the Car Tax and Fuel Tax!!
Use the car and pay for the use - sounds really fair to me!!
Why should I pay 3 sets of Car Tax when I only drive ONE car at a time!!
Thats why I said 'Excellent News' Spring Heeled Jack!! You give your opinion, allow others to give theirs, yes??
Pete
Use the car and pay for the use - sounds really fair to me!!
Why should I pay 3 sets of Car Tax when I only drive ONE car at a time!!
Thats why I said 'Excellent News' Spring Heeled Jack!! You give your opinion, allow others to give theirs, yes??
Pete