Solar Hot water heating - Blimey! How much!!!!Your having a larf mate!
01 June 2005, 02:59 PM
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Solar Hot water heating - Blimey! How much!!!!Your having a larf mate!
Was sitting outside at home this weekend, thinking the front of our house gets baked by the sun all day long.
So my thoughts drifted about getting solar heating for the hot water - a few hundred quid maybe - probably even get a grant too from the council.....
Looked into this today....www.solartwin.com
how fooking much!! - prices start from £2,799 - bladdy hell - I'd have to live to be older than Gandalf the Grey to recoup that cost -
stunned AND thats with a potential £400 grant......
Anybody had this done? I'm all for renewable energy but not at that price!
So my thoughts drifted about getting solar heating for the hot water - a few hundred quid maybe - probably even get a grant too from the council.....
Looked into this today....www.solartwin.com
how fooking much!! - prices start from £2,799 - bladdy hell - I'd have to live to be older than Gandalf the Grey to recoup that cost -
stunned AND thats with a potential £400 grant......Anybody had this done? I'm all for renewable energy but not at that price!
01 June 2005, 03:06 PM
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You are looking at an econmic pay back of about 20 years - assuming it has no maintenance costs attached and it can generate ALL your hot water ALL year round.
Like so many planet saving green ideas, they are not economically viable in the first place and also often use more energy to produce them in the first place than they will ever save in their lifetime.
Like so many planet saving green ideas, they are not economically viable in the first place and also often use more energy to produce them in the first place than they will ever save in their lifetime.
01 June 2005, 04:30 PM
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I don't think the solar panels have a very long life anyway. 15 years was it I saw mentioned somewhere?
That aside, I do think that developers could build some form of solar heating into houses as standard. It would not replace your electric/gas/oil whatever, just supplement it. An ex- GFs parents had it (it had already been installed when they bought their house) and it did make a difference to their bills.
Let's say that it saved 10% of your bills - that's 10% of domestic power use reduced. The greens would love it (10% less of that nasty old poisonous CO2 stuff being emitted - hey, lets not mention what gets produced every time they breathe out ...
) and so would homeowners. I reckon 10% is conservative. Add to that better insulation and house design (to save/recycle more *stuff* all built in as standard) and as it was standard stuff there would be economies of scale - so prices of 'after market' kit would fall to.
Or am I being a little simplistic here ....??
Dave
That aside, I do think that developers could build some form of solar heating into houses as standard. It would not replace your electric/gas/oil whatever, just supplement it. An ex- GFs parents had it (it had already been installed when they bought their house) and it did make a difference to their bills.
Let's say that it saved 10% of your bills - that's 10% of domestic power use reduced. The greens would love it (10% less of that nasty old poisonous CO2 stuff being emitted - hey, lets not mention what gets produced every time they breathe out ...
) and so would homeowners. I reckon 10% is conservative. Add to that better insulation and house design (to save/recycle more *stuff* all built in as standard) and as it was standard stuff there would be economies of scale - so prices of 'after market' kit would fall to.Or am I being a little simplistic here ....??
Dave
Last edited by hutton_d; 01 June 2005 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Cr*p speeling ....
01 June 2005, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by hutton_d
I don't think the solar panels have a very long life anyway. 15 years was it I saw mentioned somewhere?
That aside, I do think that developers could build some form of solar heating into houses as standard. It would not replace your electric/gas/oil whatever, just supplement it. An ex- GFs parents had it (it had already been installed when they bought their house) and it did make a difference to their bills.
Let's say that it saved 10% of your bills - that's 10% of domestic power use reduced. The greens would love it (10% less of that nasty old poisonous CO2 stuff being emitted - hey, lets not mention what gets produced every time they breathe out ... ) and so would homeowners. I reckon 10% is conservative. Add to that better insulation and house design (to save/recycle more *stuff* all built in as standard) and as it was standard stuff there would be economies of scale - so prices of 'after market' kit would fall to.
Or am I being a little simplistic here ....??
Dave
That aside, I do think that developers could build some form of solar heating into houses as standard. It would not replace your electric/gas/oil whatever, just supplement it. An ex- GFs parents had it (it had already been installed when they bought their house) and it did make a difference to their bills.
Let's say that it saved 10% of your bills - that's 10% of domestic power use reduced. The greens would love it (10% less of that nasty old poisonous CO2 stuff being emitted - hey, lets not mention what gets produced every time they breathe out ...
) and so would homeowners. I reckon 10% is conservative. Add to that better insulation and house design (to save/recycle more *stuff* all built in as standard) and as it was standard stuff there would be economies of scale - so prices of 'after market' kit would fall to.Or am I being a little simplistic here ....??
Dave
I'm all for more efficient use of materials, better insulation, clever positioning of the property and its windows, that's all good stuff. However, I just wonder how much energy is used to create the solar panel? I do remember the older ones would never get pay back, in otherwords whatever electricity or water heating saving they provided to the end user, it had already taken much more than that to create the panel in the first place. It's all of this up front cost of production in terms of cash and energy that the lentil munchers seem to forget about.
01 June 2005, 05:51 PM
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So it heats your water in the sunny summer when you don't need it. It doesn't heat your water in the cloudy winter when you do need it.
It might be worth doing if you live somewhere sunny all the time and if it does more than heat (which you don't really need much if you're in a hot country).
Now if it efficiently generated electricity then it might be worth thinking about.
What are the panels made of anyway? all envrironmentally friendly stuff? or not?
It might be worth doing if you live somewhere sunny all the time and if it does more than heat (which you don't really need much if you're in a hot country).
Now if it efficiently generated electricity then it might be worth thinking about.
What are the panels made of anyway? all envrironmentally friendly stuff? or not?
02 June 2005, 09:45 AM
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Well - it appears there are Water Heating panels - basically like a big radiator which absorbs heat and there are Photovoltaic panels which produce electricity.
I was going for the simple option of heating water - mainly for showers/baths.
With the photovoltaic panels you need to gather & store the power you have produced to make it useable, this generally requires a garage full of lead acid batteries!
If the water panels install is that much I really *dread* to think how much a electricity install would be......I reckon you could buy a tidy scooby for the money!
I was going for the simple option of heating water - mainly for showers/baths.
With the photovoltaic panels you need to gather & store the power you have produced to make it useable, this generally requires a garage full of lead acid batteries!
If the water panels install is that much I really *dread* to think how much a electricity install would be......I reckon you could buy a tidy scooby for the money!
02 June 2005, 10:10 AM
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Dig around on their page and you'll find a lot of gumph about how it is environmentally manufactured. I'll leave the scientists here to work that out.
When I moved into my house I paid 2200 euros for a new gas combi boiler. In the winter, for four months, my gas c/h costs me 50 euros/week. If the above can power c/h I think I'd recoup a bit quicker than 30 years. Trouble was, a) we needed it done pronto, b) I asked vaguely about solar but the guy said I'd need a tank of at least 300 litres. The one above works for 120 litres, which is what I have. Maybe I'll get a few more estimates.
When I moved into my house I paid 2200 euros for a new gas combi boiler. In the winter, for four months, my gas c/h costs me 50 euros/week. If the above can power c/h I think I'd recoup a bit quicker than 30 years. Trouble was, a) we needed it done pronto, b) I asked vaguely about solar but the guy said I'd need a tank of at least 300 litres. The one above works for 120 litres, which is what I have. Maybe I'll get a few more estimates.
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02 June 2005, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Hu
Well - it appears there are Water Heating panels - basically like a big radiator which absorbs heat and there are Photovoltaic panels which produce electricity.
I was going for the simple option of heating water - mainly for showers/baths.
With the photovoltaic panels you need to gather & store the power you have produced to make it useable, this generally requires a garage full of lead acid batteries!
If the water panels install is that much I really *dread* to think how much a electricity install would be......I reckon you could buy a tidy scooby for the money!
I was going for the simple option of heating water - mainly for showers/baths.
With the photovoltaic panels you need to gather & store the power you have produced to make it useable, this generally requires a garage full of lead acid batteries!
If the water panels install is that much I really *dread* to think how much a electricity install would be......I reckon you could buy a tidy scooby for the money!
02 June 2005, 10:43 AM
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Some people do try to store the spare electricity, and get totally disconnected from the grid.
I'd not take that option mind, far too likely to end up with frozen toes
I'd not take that option mind, far too likely to end up with frozen toes
02 June 2005, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminous
Some people do try to store the spare electricity, and get totally disconnected from the grid.
I'd not take that option mind, far too likely to end up with frozen toes
I'd not take that option mind, far too likely to end up with frozen toes
Well I suppose you can find one green that is even loonier than the rest. What a way to turn an economically unsound project in to a total money pit
02 June 2005, 11:57 AM
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there are diy solar projects supported by the dti,
http://www.dti.gov.uk/NewReview/nr42..._business.html
i had a pamphlet round claiming you can get this going for £1k
http://www.dti.gov.uk/NewReview/nr42..._business.html
i had a pamphlet round claiming you can get this going for £1k
02 June 2005, 12:12 PM
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Saw an article recently on News24 about personal wind turbines. An elderly couple had spent £18k supplemented with a £5k grant to fit one in their garden and their annual electricity bills had dropped from £800 to £8.38 a year 
As stated above, any excess electricity they produced went back into the NG and they were paid for it. Apparantly systems start at around £3k, with grants available. I've been thinking about investigating it a little further as our house looks out onto a valley which is naturally windy.
supplemented with a £5k grant to fit one in their garden and their annual electricity bills had dropped from £800 to £8.38 a year As stated above, any excess electricity they produced went back into the NG and they were paid for it. Apparantly systems start at around £3k, with grants available. I've been thinking about investigating it a little further as our house looks out onto a valley which is naturally windy.
02 June 2005, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by corradoboy
Saw an article recently on News24 about personal wind turbines. An elderly couple had spent £18k supplemented with a £5k grant to fit one in their garden and their annual electricity bills had dropped from £800 to £8.38 a year As stated above, any excess electricity they produced went back into the NG and they were paid for it. Apparantly systems start at around £3k, with grants available. I've been thinking about investigating it a little further as our house looks out onto a valley which is naturally windy.
supplemented with a £5k grant to fit one in their garden and their annual electricity bills had dropped from £800 to £8.38 a year As stated above, any excess electricity they produced went back into the NG and they were paid for it. Apparantly systems start at around £3k, with grants available. I've been thinking about investigating it a little further as our house looks out onto a valley which is naturally windy.
02 June 2005, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hutton_d
I don't think the solar panels have a very long life anyway. 15 years was it I saw mentioned somewhere?
That aside, I do think that developers could build some form of solar heating into houses as standard. It would not replace your electric/gas/oil whatever, just supplement it. An ex- GFs parents had it (it had already been installed when they bought their house) and it did make a difference to their bills.
Let's say that it saved 10% of your bills - that's 10% of domestic power use reduced. The greens would love it (10% less of that nasty old poisonous CO2 stuff being emitted - hey, lets not mention what gets produced every time they breathe out ... ) and so would homeowners. I reckon 10% is conservative. Add to that better insulation and house design (to save/recycle more *stuff* all built in as standard) and as it was standard stuff there would be economies of scale - so prices of 'after market' kit would fall to.
Or am I being a little simplistic here ....??
Dave
That aside, I do think that developers could build some form of solar heating into houses as standard. It would not replace your electric/gas/oil whatever, just supplement it. An ex- GFs parents had it (it had already been installed when they bought their house) and it did make a difference to their bills.
Let's say that it saved 10% of your bills - that's 10% of domestic power use reduced. The greens would love it (10% less of that nasty old poisonous CO2 stuff being emitted - hey, lets not mention what gets produced every time they breathe out ...
) and so would homeowners. I reckon 10% is conservative. Add to that better insulation and house design (to save/recycle more *stuff* all built in as standard) and as it was standard stuff there would be economies of scale - so prices of 'after market' kit would fall to.Or am I being a little simplistic here ....??
Dave
Simplistic maybe but as a developer we are already installing almost twice the amount of insulation that was installed as late as the eighties and also install combi/ condensing boilers which are up to three times more efficient than the equivalent 70/80s boiler.
Even the glass now fitted to all new building is "k" glass with a heat reflective coating and these are savings over a 100 year life span.
if you put the same amount of extra insulation by cost basis as the solar panels quoted the returns would be much better.
I'm not dissing solar its just that with our climate and the costs involved the returns just aren't there yet
02 June 2005, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by corradoboy
Saw an article recently on News24 about personal wind turbines. An elderly couple had spent £18k supplemented with a £5k grant to fit one in their garden and their annual electricity bills had dropped from £800 to £8.38 a year As stated above, any excess electricity they produced went back into the NG and they were paid for it. Apparantly systems start at around £3k, with grants available. I've been thinking about investigating it a little further as our house looks out onto a valley which is naturally windy.
supplemented with a £5k grant to fit one in their garden and their annual electricity bills had dropped from £800 to £8.38 a year As stated above, any excess electricity they produced went back into the NG and they were paid for it. Apparantly systems start at around £3k, with grants available. I've been thinking about investigating it a little further as our house looks out onto a valley which is naturally windy.Thanks corradoboy
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02 June 2005, 09:10 PM
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Worcester Bosch are launching a solar hot water system this year which will provide hot water 365 days a year, I'm booked in for a training course in July to become a approved installer.
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