David Edgar's arrest ?
24 May 2005, 02:01 PM
#1
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David Edgar's arrest ?
24 May 2005, 03:29 PM
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You're only getting a bias half of the story......
No warrant needs to be produced to smash down someone's door and arrest them, and the cuff marks look normal if there's been a bit of a struggle........
No warrant needs to be produced to smash down someone's door and arrest them, and the cuff marks look normal if there's been a bit of a struggle........
24 May 2005, 03:33 PM
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24 May 2005, 03:45 PM
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Currently David is legally and technically challenging the admissibility of evidence which the police obtain from Gatsometer speed cameras, the same evidence which is then used by the Crown Prosecution Service to convict thousands of innocent motorists. If he is finally permitted to present his overwhelming evidence in a Court of law millions of motorists would then be able to appeal their convictions, fines and endorsements and sue the Government for compensation.
excellent
[/mr.burns]
24 May 2005, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
You're only getting a bias half of the story......
No warrant needs to be produced to smash down someone's door and arrest them, and the cuff marks look normal if there's been a bit of a struggle........
No warrant needs to be produced to smash down someone's door and arrest them, and the cuff marks look normal if there's been a bit of a struggle........
What arrestable offence was the guy alledged to have commited that resulted in the forced entry and restraint?
24 May 2005, 04:08 PM
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had heard about this guy before but never read anything about the whole thing. That site is incredible, there should be more press coverage of the whole thing!
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24 May 2005, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Assuming they are at least believed to have committed an arrestable offence? I'm pretty sure plod can't just kick your door in and cuff you becuase they are bored?!
What arrestable offence was the guy alledged to have commited that resulted in the forced entry and restraint?
What arrestable offence was the guy alledged to have commited that resulted in the forced entry and restraint?
No idea on the offence as it's not listed - hence the one half of the story.
24 May 2005, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
There has to be a warrant but the officers don't need it in their possession - just knowledge that it exists.
No idea on the offence as it's not listed - hence the one half of the story.
No idea on the offence as it's not listed - hence the one half of the story.
The police are supposed to enter at a reasonable hour, unless this would “frustrate the purpose of the search”. They must identify themselves and supply the occupier with a copy of the warrant. If there is no person present on the premises at the time, the police must leave a copy of the warrant in a prominent place. After the search has finished, the police must return it to the magistrates’ court where it was issued, where it must be retained for 12 months, during which period the occupier has a right to inspect it.
http://www.freebeagles.org/articles/...4/lb4-7.html#1
http://www.freebeagles.org/articles/...4/lb4-7.html#1
24 May 2005, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
Well well, under PACE Section 8 - I thought
Try S17 allowing entry to:
Execute an arrest warrant or warrant of commitment
arrest for an arrestable offence
arrest for specified offence
recapture any person unlawfully at large
save life or limb or prevent serious damage to property
All you need to leave is a form explaining the occupiers' rights.
It would be pretty silly and inflexible for police officers who have just seen an escaped murderer enter a house to have to trawl around trying to find a hard copy of a bit of paper to give to the occupier after they've smashed down the door LOL.
You can enter premises to execute a warrant commiting a person to prison.
The power of entry to execute a commitment warrant does not require you to have the warrant in your possession, but you must know that it exists.
This applies warrants arising from ANY criminal proceedings.
Last edited by fatherpierre; 24 May 2005 at 04:32 PM.
24 May 2005, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
True, but section 8 of PACE isn't the only area covering warrants.
Try S17 allowing entry to:
Execute an arrest warrant or warrant of commitment
arrest for an arrestable offence
arrest for specified offence
recapture any person unlawfully at large
save life or limb or prevent serious damage to property
All you need to leave is a form explaining the occupiers' rights.
It would be pretty silly and inflexible for police officers who have just seen an escaped murderer enter a house to have to trawl around trying to find a hard copy of a bit of paper to give to the occupier after they've smashed down the door LOL.
Try S17 allowing entry to:
Execute an arrest warrant or warrant of commitment
arrest for an arrestable offence
arrest for specified offence
recapture any person unlawfully at large
save life or limb or prevent serious damage to property
All you need to leave is a form explaining the occupiers' rights.
It would be pretty silly and inflexible for police officers who have just seen an escaped murderer enter a house to have to trawl around trying to find a hard copy of a bit of paper to give to the occupier after they've smashed down the door LOL.
24 May 2005, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OllyK
OK I follow all that. I'm just trying to figure the scenario out with this chap. It would suggest if they didn't have a warrant, there was one issued somewhere. I just didn't get the impression that they were "hot on his heels" as it were, when they came kicking at the door, but I could be wrong.
I'd put a bet on either of those considering the man's position.....
24 May 2005, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
Non-payment of fines is the usual one for getting your door smashed in. Either that or failing to appear in court.
I'd put a bet on either of those considering the man's position.....
I'd put a bet on either of those considering the man's position.....
24 May 2005, 04:44 PM
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No worries. It confuses me
You'd be surprised how many 10000s of people there are with these types of warrants out against them - many of them don't even realise it until you knock on their door.
You'd be surprised how many 10000s of people there are with these types of warrants out against them - many of them don't even realise it until you knock on their door.
24 May 2005, 04:47 PM
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Does indeed look like he was wanted for unpaid fines and not turning up at court...
Post from David Edgar 1/2 way down the page
Post from David Edgar 1/2 way down the page
24 May 2005, 05:00 PM
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Im confused - what were they "visiting" him for? Was he an innocent man being "visited" for doing his daily crossword or was it because he is linked to something illegal? There's too much text on the "In the beginning" page for someone who's only half interested!!
Also if the campaign that this website is supporting is purely to do with speed camera innacuracies then why dedicate its homepage to the policemen who were caught speeding and let off - surely if speed cameras in the UK are so cr@p then maybe these policemen where complying with the speed limit - thus this website should be getting them onside?
If the cameras are innacurate then they should be compiling a foolproof way of being able to scientifically prove it and then "helping" the government / gatso manufacturers by delivering a solution, not suggesting you can "convert an NIP to RIP"
by suggesting anyone who's been nicked fights a case by writing to a someone who cant go to court. Which is where you'll go anyway with this poxy letter stuck betwix ya legs!! Its not as funny a site as Safespeed (more fun than miniclip.com) but still v.humerous 
.
Anyhoo - back to thread - so if he is a law breaker then the police might not have time to consider his health if they deem him to be a threat to them - judging by his kitchen cabinets, I for one would have taken no chances!
P
Also if the campaign that this website is supporting is purely to do with speed camera innacuracies then why dedicate its homepage to the policemen who were caught speeding and let off - surely if speed cameras in the UK are so cr@p then maybe these policemen where complying with the speed limit - thus this website should be getting them onside?
If the cameras are innacurate then they should be compiling a foolproof way of being able to scientifically prove it and then "helping" the government / gatso manufacturers by delivering a solution, not suggesting you can "convert an NIP to RIP"
by suggesting anyone who's been nicked fights a case by writing to a someone who cant go to court. Which is where you'll go anyway with this poxy letter stuck betwix ya legs!! Its not as funny a site as Safespeed (more fun than miniclip.com) but still v.humerous .Anyhoo - back to thread - so if he is a law breaker then the police might not have time to consider his health if they deem him to be a threat to them - judging by his kitchen cabinets, I for one would have taken no chances!
P
24 May 2005, 05:28 PM
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Well I just sent him an email of support. I hope that some of you also consider taking the time to encourage the poor chap. He is fighting a very hard uphill battle, and needs all of the support that he can get.
24 May 2005, 09:58 PM
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What an totally inappropriate use of police time and effort 
If he was a multi-zillion pound drug baron about to flush the evidence down the pan, or a terrorist lighting the blue touchpaper on a ricin rocket then maybe, just maybe, such over the top behaviour could be justified.
...but a "disagreement" over a sixty quid speeding ticket taken by a dodgey camera - sheeeeesh
I hope heads roll in the WM police force over this one
mb
If he was a multi-zillion pound drug baron about to flush the evidence down the pan, or a terrorist lighting the blue touchpaper on a ricin rocket then maybe, just maybe, such over the top behaviour could be justified.
...but a "disagreement" over a sixty quid speeding ticket taken by a dodgey camera - sheeeeesh
I hope heads roll in the WM police force over this one
mb
24 May 2005, 10:02 PM
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Ain't going to happen for a long time. If it ever does.
His next step is to go to the European Court of human rights. Assuming he manages to win that (in however many years it takes to get heard), then he will have to start to fight again over here.
I don't think that much will happen, but I do hope that it does. Like I say, I've mailed my support to him, and had a reply
His next step is to go to the European Court of human rights. Assuming he manages to win that (in however many years it takes to get heard), then he will have to start to fight again over here.
I don't think that much will happen, but I do hope that it does. Like I say, I've mailed my support to him, and had a reply
25 May 2005, 09:29 AM
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Until he proves otherwise he broke the law. Simple.
He's either a champion of liberty for motorists or a sad dillusional old man with nothing better to do.
Until someone can demonstrate that he is correct, the jury is out on that one.
I don't know of ANYONE who has been done by a gatso who was NOT speeding at the time.
He's either a champion of liberty for motorists or a sad dillusional old man with nothing better to do.
Until someone can demonstrate that he is correct, the jury is out on that one.
I don't know of ANYONE who has been done by a gatso who was NOT speeding at the time.
25 May 2005, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Until he proves otherwise he broke the law. Simple.
25 May 2005, 09:45 AM
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I'm not referring to the original offence Olly, but the fact he either dodged a fine or a court appearance.
has to be the same for everyone - what if that was a mugger who had dodged a fine or a court appearance, what would everyone be saying now?
has to be the same for everyone - what if that was a mugger who had dodged a fine or a court appearance, what would everyone be saying now?
25 May 2005, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
I don't know of ANYONE who has been done by a gatso who was NOT speeding at the time.
- http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/detail.a...ews&id=5354285
25 May 2005, 09:49 AM
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I don't think that it is fair to say that he has dodged a fine when he is currently in the appeals process.
It is also clear that the government do not want his evidence heard regarding the speed cameras overreading, as they have consistently denied him from presenting it in court. Hence he is now off to the European Courts.
I think he could do with more than a little support in his quest to try and sort this out. He should be at least able to present his evidence.
It is also clear that the government do not want his evidence heard regarding the speed cameras overreading, as they have consistently denied him from presenting it in court. Hence he is now off to the European Courts.
I think he could do with more than a little support in his quest to try and sort this out. He should be at least able to present his evidence.
25 May 2005, 10:07 AM
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it has been confirmed that over 80% of Gatsometers are measuring 0.63 seconds instead of the 0.50 seconds thus creating an error of 26% which is well outside the tolerance range that UK Type Approval specifications permit
25 May 2005, 10:20 AM
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Regardless of what he was arrested for isnt it abit extreme to drag an old man who has just had a heart attack out in handcuffs and be dropped so hard he becomes unconcious?
25 May 2005, 10:51 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Diablo
I'm not referring to the original offence Olly, but the fact he either dodged a fine or a court appearance.
has to be the same for everyone - what if that was a mugger who had dodged a fine or a court appearance, what would everyone be saying now?
has to be the same for everyone - what if that was a mugger who had dodged a fine or a court appearance, what would everyone be saying now?
I to have sent a message of support to this man, and also e-mailed a lnk to the Top Gear website in the hope that JC and team will publicise this case
25 May 2005, 10:57 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by fatherpierre
True, but section 8 of PACE isn't the only area covering warrants.
Try S17 allowing entry to:
Execute an arrest warrant or warrant of commitment
arrest for an arrestable offence
arrest for specified offence
recapture any person unlawfully at large
save life or limb or prevent serious damage to property
All you need to leave is a form explaining the occupiers' rights.
It would be pretty silly and inflexible for police officers who have just seen an escaped murderer enter a house to have to trawl around trying to find a hard copy of a bit of paper to give to the occupier after they've smashed down the door LOL.
You can enter premises to execute a warrant commiting a person to prison.
The power of entry to execute a commitment warrant does not require you to have the warrant in your possession, but you must know that it exists.
This applies warrants arising from ANY criminal proceedings.
Try S17 allowing entry to:
Execute an arrest warrant or warrant of commitment
arrest for an arrestable offence
arrest for specified offence
recapture any person unlawfully at large
save life or limb or prevent serious damage to property
All you need to leave is a form explaining the occupiers' rights.
It would be pretty silly and inflexible for police officers who have just seen an escaped murderer enter a house to have to trawl around trying to find a hard copy of a bit of paper to give to the occupier after they've smashed down the door LOL.
You can enter premises to execute a warrant commiting a person to prison.
The power of entry to execute a commitment warrant does not require you to have the warrant in your possession, but you must know that it exists.
This applies warrants arising from ANY criminal proceedings.
I may be being a bit slow here but do any of the above reasons really apply in this particular case? Or is it just another example of how we the gullible public are allowing Bliar's government to establish a police state, where all critiscism of state activity is stiffled
25 May 2005, 12:21 PM
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At the very least, if we are to be accused of speeding through the use of radar controlled cameras, then the equipment should be absolutely accurate and not biased in favour of the accusation. This gentleman is doing his best to protect our rights and should be applauded for that.
That description of what those police officers did to him is truly awful. To assault an elderly and ill man in such a manner is nothing short of disgraceful.
I sincerely hope he does not get the same treatment as David Kelly!
Les
That description of what those police officers did to him is truly awful. To assault an elderly and ill man in such a manner is nothing short of disgraceful.
I sincerely hope he does not get the same treatment as David Kelly!
Les
25 May 2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Until he proves otherwise he broke the law. Simple.
J.