Neil Smalley

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...313004,00.html

totally deserved, but the cynic in me wonders if the timing of this is'nt a cheap attempt to win a few votes?

Leslie

Hard to say, but it was well deserved. Pity about the Atlantic convoy medals though!

Les

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Well done that man,
Colin

jowl

Wow. They don't give those out every day

daiscooby

Well done is right, an act of true bravery.
I dont think it is a cynical vote ploy, he has earned it IMHO.

To deliberately 'raise your head above the parapet' metaphorically speaking is totally against your training. And to do it twice weeks apart is not just adrenaline rush it is a brave man with bollocks the size of footballs. Also he seems very quiet and reserved which does tend to be a trait amongst the truely brave.

Belmondo

Firstly let me say very brave chap and lots of others would have panicked (more than likely including myself) but....most of his actions involved an element of self preservation which I thought never warranted a VC no matter what. I seem to remember Clarkson relaying a story of a pilot who's plane was shot to bits / crew killed injured and he himself riddled with bullets who still completed his mission and somehow managed to return safely (no medal awarded).

The bit where he removes injured crew under fire very brave but I'm confused...
He then returned once again to his vehicle and again mounted the exposed turret to lift out the vehicle's gunner and move him to a position of safety. Exposing himself yet again to enemy fire he returned to the rear of the burning vehicle to lead the disorientated and shocked dismounts and casualties to safety.

Remounting his burning vehicle for the third time, he drove it through a complex chicane and into the security of the defended perimeter of the outpost, thus denying it to the enemy. Only at this stage did Beharry pull the fire extinguisher handles, immobilising the engine of the vehicle, dismounted and then moved himself into the relative safety of the back of another Warrior.

This seems to say he removes the injured crew to saftey (under enemy fire) and then gets in and drives it into the security of the defended perimeter.. If there was so much fire why did he not go to a position of saftey first?

Belmondo

He stuck his head up (literally) the first time, again very brave, and they may all have been killed if he had not but the second time as I understand it he was behind armor and stayed there.....

Tiggs

does seem odd......pity he didnt have a laptop and sat broadband....he should have posted on here for the correct course of action. (he would also be told how to fit gold wheels and neons to his truck)

daiscooby

Belmondo - I did say 'metaphorically'

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, he really cocked up there didn't he ?

D

Belmondo

Thats the thing he may well have...I can only assume the sky report is cockeyed somehow...As it reads he extracted the injured under enemy fire (best avoided) and then drove it to a position of safety. I can only assume that the level of fire was much less than one is lead to believe in which case is a VC really appropriate?

blueone

Does anyone know of an online source for all who have received the VC?

Iain Young

I'd guess that unless you were actually there, you'll never know. Can't believe anything that the military or papers report as it could all be propaganda for all we know (wouldn't be the first time)...

Belmondo

You could try this http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

See:
http://www.victoriacross.net
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/o.../vcfactsht.htm

D

Tiggs

lol...what do you have to do to make SN happy?

bunch of IT geeks arent impressed with round the world yachting....not impressed with round the world airflight....now they think hero arby boy doesnt know what he's doing and should give his VC back!

I wonder if there are a bunch of SAS sitting somewhere moaning about the way a SN did his cabling during a tough bit of overtime for Random IT Firm Ltd

Belmondo

LOL

Seeing as you bought the SAS up....I hear that they were involved in hand to hand fighting in Afganistan in caves with fanatics who by all accounts welcomed death. I'm sure they were some VC cases there that got passed over for whatever reason.

Chris L

Here's his citation. If anyone thinks they could have done better - do let us know! The guy deserves the highest praise and upmost respect, not our cynisicsim.

"Beharry, who was born in Grenada and whose parents still live there, earned the Victoria Cross for two separate acts of bravery under fire in the town of al-Amarah, north of the southern Iraqi city of Basra last year. In the first incident on May 1, an armored vehicle that Beharry had been driving at the head of a six-vehicle convoy was hit by rocket propelled grenade fire while on a mission to rescue a foot patrol that was in trouble. "As a result of this ferocious initial volley of fire, both the platoon commander and the vehicle's gunner were incapacitated by concussion and other wounds and a number of soldiers in the rear of the vehicle were also wounded," the official citation said. Unable to tell whether his commander was alive, Beharry tried to drive his Warrior vehicle forward but was hit again by rocket propelled grenade fire. Realizing that the only way to save the lives of the men onboard and those in the vehicles behind was to keep going despite the incoming fire, the young soldier pushed forward through the ambush. "By doing this he was able to lead the remaining five Warriors behind him towards safety," the citation said. His vehicle in flames, Beharry then rescued his wounded commander, it added. A few weeks later on June 11, another convoy that Beharry was leading was ambushed and a grenade detonated six inches (15 centimeters) from his head. "With the blood from his head injury obscuring his vision, Beharry managed to continue to control his vehicle and forcefully reversed the Warrior out of the ambush," said the citation. The soldier, in the 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, then collapsed unconscious and was given a 50:50 chance of survival. His citation reads: "For his repeated extreme gallantry and unquestioned valor, despite intense direct attacks, personal injury and damage to his vehicle in the face of relentless enemy action, Private Beharry deserves the highest possible recognition."

Iain Young

Personally I don't see why people should be singled out and rewarded for doing what they are paid for (i.e. their job). In the case of the vc, this is slightly different as it rewards military people who have done things far in excess of what is expected from them (acts of bravery etc).

This solidier may well have earned this reward, (and all kudos to him if he did), however there will always be an element of doubt in the current politcal climate (looming election, propaganda being distributed by the military because of the negative Iraq feelings etc). Who really believes anything they read in the papers or see reported on tv these days?

Iain Young

Out of interest, do people get awarded the vc posthumously? I'm sure there have been thousands of people who have done things just as brave, but not lived to tell the tale...

Belmondo

From site above
Incredibly, it was not until 1920 that an official amendment was made allowing the VC to be awarded posthumously.



Until 1977 it was the only British decoration (apart from a Mention in Despatches) that could be awarded posthumously.

Tiggs

thats life......i invest some money for a cleint and get paid £50k bonus. 3 days work, may have to skip lunch once.


this bloke risks his life and gets a little badge.......i thnk we can allow him that whatever the politics.

T

Chris L

Yes they can - in fact most recipients are normally dead! Nature of the award I guess. In many circumstances, although the award is made to an individual, the honour will often mention other soldiers involved in the action. There have only been approx 1300 VCs awarded, so you have to have done something pretty outstanding to get one - in this case, I really don't think politics comes into it. Don't forget also there are a number of other awards that can be given - the VC is merely the highest and most outstanding.

gsm1

Where did you hear that? If they'd found as much as a skeleton in any one of those caves they'd be reporting it super quick as a victory in the war against terrorism. Hand to empty cave fighting isn't exactly worthy of a VC.

daiscooby

Oh the Lord Jesus Christ protect me from the 3rd Batt. The Royal Light Ale Cavaliers

He was very brave, dont debate why or what he should have done on Medal of Honour or Call of Duty or Delta Force for the PC. He did it, real time, real fire, real danger. Not cyber bravery where CTRL-Shift F is the difference btween life and death. Real life FFS

Drunken Bungle Whore

Well done that man! It's nice to see people recognised for real achievements, rather than simply lauded for being 'famous'

Maybe we should start giving out medals to those brave enough to publicly applaude great achievements on SN......?

And to all those who enjoy trying to pick holes and belittle the achievements of this bloke and the likes of Ellen McArthur etc - GET OFF YOUR LAZY ***** AND GO TRY DOING SOMETHING YOURSELVES!

CyprusScooby

That account never happened and was dreamed up by the Daily Mail.
The majority of VC's are awarded postumously. To be awarded one, you need to have faced a 90% chance of death in the carrying out of your actions.

I am currently serving in Iraq, but luckily I havent faced that much enemy fire so far.

ozzy

Who the **** cares what anyone on here thinks. He was awarded the VC and that's that. If I was one of the lads he saved, I'd wholeheartedly agree that he deserved it and more.

Soldiers are taught hand-to-hand combat for one simple reason - wars aren't all fought through a sniper scope or from a video camera mounted to a fighter jet. At some point you'll have to get close-up and personal with someone wanting to kill you. It's a brutal thing and there will be a point where you'll have to fight it out one-on-one with a bayonet.

He was awarded the VC for the simple fact that he ignored the threat to his own safety in order to save his comrades. It would have been much easier to take cover himself and watch his m8's getting shot or burned alive.

You could be cynical and say that others have probably done the same or "it's their job", but I for one am glad at least someone has been praised for their actions. I'd rather it be like that than not praising anyone.

Until someone on here has put their own life on the line fighting in a war, then they can't criticise the medal or the bloke IMO. Well, they can but I'd think they were just full of it

Stefan

Big C

Please don't go on again about the McArthur thing. There is absolutely no comparison.

I genuinely am pleased for the guy, think he deserves it (wasn't there so can't say otherwise), and don't think there is anything sinister about the timing.

I don't think it is a reasonable suggestion however to suggest that everyone could do those type of things. In fact, recent advertising capaigns (Police - Could you?, Marines, 99.99% need not apply etc, etc) is emphasising the differentiation between the majority of people who couldn't give a flying ****, and those that can/do.

The award is 'For valour'. I think this guy has valour, so he deserves it. McArthur certainly does too, but the two 'achievements' are not comparable.

Just my 2p worth,.


C

MattPiece

Put into context what this guy has done for his comrades and his country compared to what you and I have done, "just doing their job" or what certain other people have done to earn MBEs, OBEs, etc.

The bloke's a bloody hero.