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Old 23 February 2005, 10:50 PM
  #1  
mart360
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Angry goodbye UK democracy :(

So b liar has achieved his aim..

the UK,s fundamental constitution has been overuled..

what happened to democracy and peoples person

crap crap and more crap

el tone is now seriously becoming what he proclaims to want to stop...


we,re on the rocky road to dictatorship..

fundamentally there is no uk law that can be upheld now, given that our

elected can overturn the magna carta in a one vote issue..

guilt before innocence.. detention without trial...

fines before proven guilty...

what is it that w*nker hates about the uk??? if its that bad why dosent he **** off to the socialist states and kiss *** there...

roll on the revolution



M
Old 24 February 2005, 12:01 PM
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Brendan Hughes
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WTF are you on about? The UK has no Constitution. Unless you're talking about the 1998 Human Rights Act - which is a recent import from Europe.
Old 24 February 2005, 12:06 PM
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Jye
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No 'written' constitution anyway
Old 24 February 2005, 12:08 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4289349.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4293067.stm
Old 24 February 2005, 12:09 PM
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Jye
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A quick Google.

The UK Constitution

The United Kingdom has no written constitution. Therefore in contrast with most other countries it is not possible to point to a text and say "this is our constitution", nor is there any doctrine of the supremacy of the constitution over other legislation, nor any constitutional court, nor any doctrine of the separation of powers.

Thus the elements of the United Kingdom constitution have to be sought out by consulting any or all of five different sources. This source may be a statute, i.e. an Act of Parliament. It may be a judicial pronouncement on the meaning of certain words in the statute. Or else the source may be a principle of the Common Law - from which certain basic principles are derived including freedom of expression, assembly and association. Then there is the body of law that relates to the status and operation of Parliament and its members. Finally there is a fifth element which is not written down at all: these are the conventions of the Constitution, such as the convention that Parliament must meet at least once a year, that the sovereign does not attend Cabinet meetings, and that ministers who lose the confidence of the House of Commons on a major issue must resign. The British Constitution is unusual in having so many and such important conventions.
Old 24 February 2005, 12:15 PM
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Brendan Hughes
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"The prime minister said he was acting on the "unanimous" advice of the security services and police chiefs, who said the orders were "necessary to disrupt the planning of terrorist activity in this country". "

Ah, well they're famous for giving good advice to the PM recently, aren't they?

Honestly - he asks the police if they'd like more powers. Was he really expecting a "no"?


Jye, thanks for making my point. Couldn't be arsed.
Old 24 February 2005, 12:40 PM
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mart360
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history 101 guys??


so the magna carta is a crock then????

nl kiss your *** goodbye


M

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Old 24 February 2005, 12:43 PM
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ajm
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Bollox to the genuine terror suspects, it's unclebuck I feel sorry for....he'll be under house arrest with no internet/phone in a jiffy, along with the rest of us who have expressed anti-labour opinions that endanger "national security"!
Old 24 February 2005, 12:46 PM
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unclebuck
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"When the prime minister has left the corridors of power far behind him, he will reflect and, unless he acts now, will regret -- too late -- the destructive manner of politics he permitted to take root,"

John Major

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...r_050222100130
Old 24 February 2005, 12:55 PM
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I think house detention without trial is a good thing.

I would start by detaining blair and his cronies!
Old 24 February 2005, 01:51 PM
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Tony Blair (2005): "There is no greater civil liberty than to live free from terrorist attack".

Benjamin Franklin (1755): "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

(copied from the BBC's current debate on the subject)
Old 24 February 2005, 01:53 PM
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Brendan Hughes
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by SJ_Skyline
Tony Blair (2005): "There is no greater civil liberty than to live free from terrorist attack".
Did he really say that?

That man's a feckin arsehole.
Old 24 February 2005, 02:05 PM
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SJ, those two quotes are superb, simply superb.

I shouted at the radio today when I heard the news. I am *so* disgusted that a politician has effectively just been given the power to put someone under house arrest.

Anyone with a spare couple of hours who fancies reading a good story should google "John Titor", and read the strategicbrains website. Brilliant bit of sci-fi writing IMHO at what happens if a police state takes a grip in the west.
Old 24 February 2005, 02:29 PM
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The difference being that this is FACT
Old 24 February 2005, 02:33 PM
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Suresh
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Red face

Originally Posted by chiark

I shouted at the radio today when I heard the news. I am *so* disgusted that a politician has effectively just been given the power to put someone under house arrest.
The justice minister in The Netherlands just served a deportation order on four foeign Imams for spreading a gospel of hate. This was done without a trial too on the basis of evidence collected by the Secret Service. Would you come and scream at the radio here as well? Or, like most sane people, say good riddence to bad rubbish?

The imams have appealed, as is their right.

Suresh
Old 24 February 2005, 02:38 PM
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OllyK
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Originally Posted by Suresh
The justice minister in The Netherlands just served a deportation order on four foeign Imams for spreading a gospel of hate. This was done without a trial too on the basis of evidence collected by the Secret Service. Would you come and scream at the radio here as well? Or, like most sane people, say good riddence to bad rubbish?

The imams have appealed, as is their right.

Suresh
If there is evidence, then present it in a court. I know, I know but then the secret services will also have to admit that they got the evidence by illegal means and so they wouldn't be able to convict anyway.
Old 24 February 2005, 02:46 PM
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Geezer
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Cool

Originally Posted by mart360
history 101 guys??


so the magna carta is a crock then????

nl kiss your *** goodbye


M
Magna Carta was more of a way for the Barons to curb the power of King John, and to be granted certain concessions by him in return for their loyalty.

It does touch on other issues, but it's not a constitution by any means.

The next closest thing we have is the Bill of RIghts, but again this is more to do with granting power to Parliament as opposed to the Monarchy. As parliament have done what you say is so distasteful, then it would seem that it is perfectly legal and above board.

Doesn't make it palatable however.

Geezer
Old 24 February 2005, 03:04 PM
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SJ_Skyline
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It was a cold, bright day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen....

Old 24 February 2005, 03:10 PM
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by SJ_Skyline
It was a cold, bright day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen....

He was only 20 years out.
Old 24 February 2005, 03:26 PM
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Orwell was a far seeing man, this is frightening, I reckon we have only one chance left to us.

Les
Old 24 February 2005, 03:28 PM
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unclebuck
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by ajm
it's unclebuck I feel sorry for....he'll be under house arrest with no internet/phone in a jiffy, along with the rest of us who have expressed anti-labour opinions that endanger "national security"!
You're not alone in seeing where this is going.

"This law marks the end of democracy in this country, a law that allows politicians to place people under house arrest without trial or evidence makes this a police state. I almost can't believe we are letting a government do this, then again if we protest we'll probably all be placed under arrest as 'suspected terrorists"
Old 24 February 2005, 03:41 PM
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its all a big joke. When will bLiar learn that we are not all stupid.

When was the last terrorist attack?
Is there is a present danger?
Are we to believe that 100% of the planned attacks on our country have been foiled?
Why didn't we apply the same accuracy on foiling attacks when we were under attack from the IRA?




Bob
Old 24 February 2005, 04:09 PM
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warrenm2
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...23/nterr23.xml

charles clark says that he knows stuff he cant tell us, so we have to trust him....

Where have I heard that before?
Old 24 February 2005, 04:35 PM
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warrenm2
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also rather more simply... http://www.dontvotelabour.org.uk/
Old 24 February 2005, 08:47 PM
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As many, me included and no doubt many others on other forums complain bitterly, nash our teeth, even foam at the mouth at these assaults on our essential freedoms we thought were our birthright the politicians don't give a dam.
The Tories, if in power would be doing much the same, with Labour complaining.
They know that most of us won't actually do anything in defiance, for many reasons.
Listen to the writers, so often far seeing and correct.
What really pees me off though is that Charles Clarke in a previous life as President of the National Union of Students would be on the streets in response to such impositions. So I say he is, like all politicians, imho, a hyprocite.
Old 24 February 2005, 10:38 PM
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ajm
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Originally Posted by warrenm2
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...23/nterr23.xml

charles clark says that he knows stuff he cant tell us, so we have to trust him....

Where have I heard that before?
I'm going to perform a citizen's arrest on Charles Clarke. Afterall, I know stuff that I can't tell him so he'll just have to trust me!

Last edited by ajm; 24 February 2005 at 10:40 PM.
Old 24 February 2005, 10:54 PM
  #28  
boomer
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Angry

There was an excellent article in The Register yesterday.

Guilty! New Labour could arrest self under new terror law

It makes some very interesting points.

mb

p.s. Don't forget to read both pages!
Old 24 February 2005, 11:04 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by BOB'5
When will bLiar learn that we are not all stupid.
Unfortunately, not until we (as a country) stop voting him back in. Chances are we'll have the opportunity to do something in or around May. Not saying the alternatives necessarily fill me with wild optimism, but I'm struggling to believe they'll be worse.

Is the next step that the government takes the "speed kills" argument one step further, and uses the opportunity to place speeders under house arrest for "terrorising the roads" - once their tax paying ability (sorry driving license) has expired?
Old 25 February 2005, 11:33 AM
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Read "1984", and worry!

Les
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