Drunken Bungle Whore

I'm hoping that this can be treated seriously and not plunge down hill into a schoolboy style slanging match!

Did anyone else see the show on C4 last night? The guy was making some interesting points about the fact that the range of socially acceptable clothing for men was pretty limited.

He spent a weekend with a bunch of cross dressers talking to them about their motivation for wanting to do it etc etc. He then went to a track day at Brands Hatch and talked to a group of bikers about why they wore what they did and why they picked them.

Interestingly the answers from both groups were pretty much the same - I like the feel of the clothing, It makes me feel like a different person, It's like dressing up in costumes. None of the bikers talked about the safety aspect - and when he specifically asked one of them about the (rather silly) hump on his back the guy said "It's something to do with being aerodynamic, but I just bought it 'cos I think it looks good"

So - why is it socially unacceptable (in most circles) for men to dress as women? Does it particularly offend anyone on here? Does anyone on here do it? Why can women dress as men but not the other way around?

Personally I really can't see the problem - wear what you like and be who you are - just be nice!

PG

No comment, as I will start the "plunge down hill into a schoolboy style slanging match"

Dracoro

Each to their own. Unless they wear stupid basecall caps, everyone looks crap in them.

blueone

If you find that your Gender socialisation has made you like feeling the breeze down below wear a kilt! Plenty of other options also available to men without having to resort to wearing clothing specifically designed for a different Genders body form. It must be a sexual fetish thing to want to wear female clothing and not become a female by way of a Gender reasignment op.

boxst

Hello

Well, it probably has origins in women being perceived as the weaker sex (sorry, I did say "perceived") and as such dressing as one is not "macho". Only certain elements of society have a problem with transvestites and they tend to be the more "macho" ones (or ones with repressed homosexuality if you want to be mean).

Having lived in San Francisco for a while I was fairly oblivious to transvestites apart from the ones that had beards of course ...

Steve.

Freak

Well id argue that thats a load of crap for starters.
Aside from that, each to their own...what you do on your own time...................

Drunken Bungle Whore

So how come women can wear mens clothes without people being bothered? Doesn't seem fair really.....

mj

because most women still look like women, and can carry it off, unless they are plug ugly bacon flickers.

Hairy arsed welders in dresess just look stupid, the little britain sketch demonstates this perfectly.

Drunken Bungle Whore

I'm not picking on you mj - honestly - I'm just genuinely very curious about the way 'society' deems what it right and acceptable and what isn't. (As far as what you look like or wear goes).

If a big burly bloke wants to wear a dress then it may not be what we're used to seeing - but does that make it wrong or bad? Why do we have to conform to dress codes? I have a pretty senior level job - and occasionally I like to colour my hair bright pink - which usually causes some raised eyebrows. (Bearing in mind I work in an office based environment - luckily my boss is ) Does the colour of my hair affect how my brain works? No. It may affect the way some people perceive me - bit that's their problem - I'd rather prove I can do a job by doing it rather than just looking like I can! Does the fact that a bloke wants to wear a skirt and make up make him stupid? Not in my eyes.

I'm not ranting - just rambling a bit I guess. I've never really been one to do as I was told....

unclebuck

Don't forget...

http://seehere.blogspot.com/2004/09/...rded-lady.html

Brendan Hughes

A scientific fact, or judicious editing to reinforce a pre-determined point? Not sure I'd trust TV (television).

The other thing is, define "socially acceptable". I can think of a number of places where walking in dressing like you're about to do the Brands Hatch GP will get you as many raised eyebrows as being a cross-dresser. I didn't see it, but I'd say the point would be the WIDE range of clothing acceptable in LIMITED situations. Only a few weeks ago we had a guy on here asking how to dress for going shooting.

mj

There is absoluteley nothing at all wrong/depraved/perverted/whathaveyou with a man wanting to wear womens clothes.

If I get the jist of your initial post right, (and I didn't see the proggie on telly), you are talking about your average man in the street wearing womens clothes, and the problem society in general would have with this. For me personally, I have no problem, but still stand by my view that *men* look stupid in womens clothes.

You probaly look a complete pillock with bright pink hair, but thats my opinion, and its your hair

mj

Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick with the thead, but what you are talking about are the full blown trannies that want to be women - i.e, the hair, the make up, the ****, skin treatment etc, and yes some of them look the business.

I thought DBW's initial post was about clothes, and the limited choice for men because of what is deemed socially acceptable.

jasey

If you want to get funny looks just go out for a night wearing shorts - Assuming you're not on Holiday you'll get some very strange looks in most towns / cities.

So yes - Very limited choices for Men !

what would scooby do

Women can wear mens clothes for sure 1- 0

But we can bare our nipples in public without being arrested 1- 1

Drunken Bungle Whore

Transexuals are the ones after the sex change. A lot of transvestites are very happily hetrosexuals with no desire to do anything more than dress in womens clothes.

I know I'm a loopy idealistic nutter - but wouldn't it be fabulous if everyone could just look like how they wanted to look without anyone else judging them?

cw42

iTrader: (1)

think madonna sums it up quite well

written by Madonna and Guy Sigsworth
produced by Madonna, Guy Sigsworth and Mark "Spike" Stent
Track 8, Time: 4:43
-------------------------
(Spoken
Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
But secretly you'd love to know what it's like
Wouldn't you
What it feels like for a girl

Silky smooth
Lips as sweet as candy, baby
Tight blue jeans
Skin that shows in patches

Strong inside but you don't know it
Good little girls they never show it
When you open up your mouth to speak
Could you be a little weak

Chorus:

Do you know what it feels like for a girl
Do you know what it feels like in this world
For a girl

Hair that twirls on finger tips so gently, baby
Hands that rest on jutting hips repenting

Hurt that's not supposed to show
And tears that fall when no one knows
When you're trying hard to be your best
Could you be a little less

(chorus)
(chorus, prefixing 3rd line with "What it feels like")

Strong inside but you don't know it
Good little girls they never show it
When you open up your mouth to speak
Could you be a little weak

(chorus, repeat)

In this world
Do you know
Do you know
Do you know what it feels like for a girl
What it feels like in this world

Brendan Hughes

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....8&postcount=19

mj

ok, DBW, lets say for instance your husband decided one day that he would wear a Mr Blobby suit, because he liked it and helped him express himself.

So would you still go out of the house with him, go to the pub, shops etc??

scoob_babe

Yes, I think knowing both of them, she probably would.

mj

sod it, I hate looking normal. I reckon I'll wear one of these next time I go out to the boozer:

scoob_babe

Well it worked for Mr Crowe after the film came out I'm sure I read somewhere that him in that outfit was an overriding reason for most women watching Gladiator!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blueone

I think Woman wearing Mens clothing may go back to the Suffragettes and their fight for equality. Perhaps this is why it is socially acceptable for Woman to wear Mens clothes and not vice versa?
Men in this society have never felt the need to have a fight for equality on the level of Suffridge except perhaps the F4J et al campaigns of modern times where they too have used 'outfits' to reinforce their arguments as Iconic symbols are a very powerful medium to put across a message to people at all levels of development. F4J could have chosen to wear dresses etc but instead wanted to diferentiate between the sexes and announce that Men are just as important in the lives and socialisation of children as Woman are.
Men are perceived as doing cross dressing as a past time or as a Hobby (can just see it now, TV outfits in Hobby Craft! LOL). Men have decided to do it as a form of self expression where as woman did it to be accepted in a then mainly Patriarcal society.
They wore the clothes that the Men in the Jobs which they wanted wore so it was easier for Woman to be accepted in these positions wearing the same outfits? Over time it has transfered to being ok to wear male gear at any time for Woman as the main reaason for doing so has been forgotten. Also, think back to the seventys and when Woman wearing Boiler suits was widespread, this coincidently was at another time in history when equality of the sexes was on the table. But, has convenieatly been mixed up with the Lesbian movement of the time and is used in comedy as a parody of what the argument of the time was about and to still maintain a somewhat twisted disparity.
Woman have used issues of Gender clothing as a means to obtain empowerment and to confront oppression where as men do it as it 'feels good' and they want to express themselves.
Most forms of self expression denote some sort of selfishness and attention grabbing on a small or large scale. Cross dressers may well be using the shock factor to obtain the attention that they desperately crave? Or could the Men be Socialy constructed into wearing Womans outfits as they see it as a way of regaining some or all of their lost power? They feel oppressed in society and have taken a lead from the Womans movement, in effect they want eqaulity and this is their way of shocking others into giving it to them.

No you are correct, the World is not a fair place. Disparity exisits in all areas of life. Why should the Genders and what they wear be any different?

Drunken Bungle Whore

How right you are! And with my fondness for pink hair and Lacroix (cheapo outlet Lacroix - or charity shop) - then it would seem only fair.

Serioisly - why does it matter? He is who he is - whether he's dressed like Man at C&A or Mickey bloody Mouse!

Drunken Bungle Whore

Hands up who's first to rip the p1ss out of Russell Crowe in a skirt?

And hands up who doesn't find that piccy just a tiny bit shexy.....

Markus

My god, not a single post by Telboy! Shock Horror!

filfy

I use to work on a ship with a tranny he was the second mate,Rides a big fookin motorbike,Stunning girl friend and was a top geezer
Hello Patsy if your out there

He always said lifes a bitch then you dress like one

mynickers

Judge not or thee maybe judged.

I am happy to leave people like this to their own devices, doesn't hurt me or offend me!

I tell you the kind of behaviour that really does get my goat, to the degree it takes all my mental ability (what little I own) to not get involved. For example, yesterday waiting for an xray in hospital, a daft punk chavy cap wearning f*cko who was there chattin' on his mobile phone, under the 'no mobile sign' - yeah I am so f*cking tough and cool. And giving everyone dirty stares who dared to look at him, and asking people 'what's your problem'. Heh, I'll tell you what my problem is sunny boy.....

Eventually the security guard told him to switch it off, and he gave him grief, I had to but in then jesus, peoples lives being saved, WTF!? This selfish chav scumbag vs a bloke looking ridiculous in a frock!?