Anybody ever hit black ice??
Anybody ever hit black ice??
.
11 February 2005, 10:47 AM
#5
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Yep, hit some black ice, flew off the road at 70mph in a Metro heading straight for some trees. Didn't think I was going to make it, but in the 25 yard wide verge I found enough grip to get the car back on the road, leaving me a more than a little bit ashen faced, a real life flashing before my eyes moment.........
11 February 2005, 10:49 AM
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I once spent over 5,000 feet trying to stop a Vulcan on black ice at Goose Bay in Canada. It stopped with 30 yards to go before the barrier at the end of the runway!
It would have helped if ATC had warned me about the ice before landing.
Les
It would have helped if ATC had warned me about the ice before landing.
Les
11 February 2005, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Leslie
I once spent over 5,000 feet trying to stop a Vulcan on black ice at Goose Bay in Canada. It stopped with 30 yards to go before the barrier at the end of the runway!
It would have helped if ATC had warned me about the ice before landing.
Les
It would have helped if ATC had warned me about the ice before landing.
Les
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11 February 2005, 12:36 PM
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what exactly is this mystery crashing stuff?
if its wet and freezing the roads will be slippery.......or have I missed something?
...or is it just a general excuse people use when crashing
gb
if its wet and freezing the roads will be slippery.......or have I missed something?
...or is it just a general excuse people use when crashing
gb
11 February 2005, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Geek Boy
what exactly is this mystery crashing stuff?
if its wet and freezing the roads will be slippery.......or have I missed something?
...or is it just a general excuse people use when crashing
gb
if its wet and freezing the roads will be slippery.......or have I missed something?
...or is it just a general excuse people use when crashing
gb
The funny thing is that they never learn from it either, you should look back to this time last year and there were the same posts and I guarantee the same posts the same time next year aswell.
Brit scooby drivers can not grasp the concept that a car + snow/ice do not mix to well they all reckon that as they have a scooby with 4 wheel drive they are invincible, also nobody in the UK seem to have heard of winter tyres either it is most perplexing really.
11 February 2005, 01:30 PM
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Wurzel...
Winter tyres would be a complete waste of time in Britain as the snow will last for one day max, before the roads are clear, and unless you stay in the far North of Scotland, then your snow coverage these days probably amounts to no more than a couple of days a year maximum.
IMHO
Winter tyres would be a complete waste of time in Britain as the snow will last for one day max, before the roads are clear, and unless you stay in the far North of Scotland, then your snow coverage these days probably amounts to no more than a couple of days a year maximum.
IMHO
11 February 2005, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SiPie
Wurzel...
Winter tyres would be a complete waste of time in Britain as the snow will last for one day max, before the roads are clear, and unless you stay in the far North of Scotland, then your snow coverage these days probably amounts to no more than a couple of days a year maximum.
IMHO
Winter tyres would be a complete waste of time in Britain as the snow will last for one day max, before the roads are clear, and unless you stay in the far North of Scotland, then your snow coverage these days probably amounts to no more than a couple of days a year maximum.
IMHO
You do not need snow to benefit from winter tyres. can I suggest you do a little bit of research on how winter tyres work, and I am not talking about SNOW tyres.
11 February 2005, 01:40 PM
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Basically winter tyres use a softer type of rubber so they're still grippy at very low temperatures. Only reason you can't use them all year round is that when the weather warms up they'd be too soft and wear out really fast. The tread pattern is fairly similar to 'normal' tyres.
11 February 2005, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Iwan
Basically winter tyres use a softer type of rubber so they're still grippy at very low temperatures. Only reason you can't use them all year round is that when the weather warms up they'd be too soft and wear out really fast. The tread pattern is fairly similar to 'normal' tyres.
Your summer tyres lose grip at that temperature as they start to go hard and with the tread pattern and them going hard you lose grip very easily.
Winter tyres are now mixed with silicon which prevents them from hardening up after a few years, it is perfectly acceptable to use them for 3 or 4 seasons, and as you would only use them for maybe 4 months of the year they will last you ages.
11 February 2005, 01:46 PM
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I agree with Wurzel, people in all sorts of cars assume that because they are snug and warm it's just the same outside.
I do think it's to do with the British climate though. In a lot of the South you only now get less than 20 days a winter with frosty conditions, and almost only 2-3 days with snow on the ground.
That leads to people not knowing how to drive for the conditions, and the false assumption that it's all the same every day of the year. Winter tyres are a great idea and woud stop a lot of cars coming off the road. Anyone who has tried to drive a scoob in snow/ice will tell you, that thanks to big fat tyres they are a handful to drive. Even corsa's and micra's with thin skinny tyres will out perform a normally shod scoob on Snow.
It's a cost benefit answer though. Do you pay say 400 quid for winter tyres you may only get the benefit of, or do you leave the ones your have on. Personally I would lump for driver training so I knew how to drive correctly no matter the conditions.
I do think it's to do with the British climate though. In a lot of the South you only now get less than 20 days a winter with frosty conditions, and almost only 2-3 days with snow on the ground.
That leads to people not knowing how to drive for the conditions, and the false assumption that it's all the same every day of the year. Winter tyres are a great idea and woud stop a lot of cars coming off the road. Anyone who has tried to drive a scoob in snow/ice will tell you, that thanks to big fat tyres they are a handful to drive. Even corsa's and micra's with thin skinny tyres will out perform a normally shod scoob on Snow.
It's a cost benefit answer though. Do you pay say 400 quid for winter tyres you may only get the benefit of, or do you leave the ones your have on. Personally I would lump for driver training so I knew how to drive correctly no matter the conditions.
11 February 2005, 01:50 PM
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can I suggest you do a little bit of research on how winter tyres work,
11 February 2005, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Geek Boy
...yeah, all well and good but what is black ice?
BTW winter tyres are tyres with bigger gaps between tread block to help get rid of more water.
BTW winter tyres are tyres with bigger gaps between tread block to help get rid of more water.
Black ice is just that. Ice that is black and matches the road surface so you can't see it.
11 February 2005, 02:06 PM
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Since the beginning of winter this year (i.e. oct / nov last year) we've only had about 2 days when the temperature has dropped below 0 in Swindon. Winter tyres would be a complete waste of time and money down here, especially when you consider the fact that the roads are in such bad condition that they wear out normal tyres quick enough.... 
It's a thin layer of ice that forms on roads / pavements under certain conditions (i.e. where the road was a bit damp, and has quickly frozen). This can occur practically anywhere without warning, and is practically invisible to the eye when walking, let alone driving. It's nasty stuff. Don't really have any warning of it either.
I was driving through the Forest of Dean a couple of years ago when I hit some on a bend. Luckily I wasn't going fast, so I was able to regain control of the car, but the outside temperature gauge in the car was reading 4 degress so it wasn't exactly expected, (had just formed in a spot which was shaded by the trees)...
Note that winter tyres might help a bit, but due to the very little traction available on black ice, they're not going to make a vast amount of difference if you're going too fast...
...yeah, all well and good but what is black ice?
I was driving through the Forest of Dean a couple of years ago when I hit some on a bend. Luckily I wasn't going fast, so I was able to regain control of the car, but the outside temperature gauge in the car was reading 4 degress so it wasn't exactly expected, (had just formed in a spot which was shaded by the trees)...
Note that winter tyres might help a bit, but due to the very little traction available on black ice, they're not going to make a vast amount of difference if you're going too fast...
11 February 2005, 02:06 PM
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I agree with Neil however!
I ran my scooby on summer tyres here in Germany for 4 winters without any problems as I was a winter tyre sceptic, however it scared the **** out of me, but still refused to believe in winter tyres. I just adapted my driving style to accomodate teh conditions. This winter I conceeded and bought a set of Nokian WR winter tyres 215/40/17 and I am glad I did, they are alot better than I expected, shortly after getting them fitted we had 2 weeks of snow and I found driving around in teh snow was alot easier and more pleasurable, when the snow turned to slush and then into ice I was still driving round like it was clear, not as fast but alot quicker than in previous years, last week I was out in the snow accelerating hard and breaking to see what happens and I had no probs at all, in previous years I could not stop and the ABS was useless and had to be disabled.
I don't think driver education is needed, I think driver common sense is needed, peopel need to be responsible for their own self preservation. Personaly! NOW! I would have winter tyres and maybe go for a bit of aditional training as I want someone to show me how to drive my car properly. But I also have the common sense to change my driving style to suit the conditions.
I ran my scooby on summer tyres here in Germany for 4 winters without any problems as I was a winter tyre sceptic, however it scared the **** out of me, but still refused to believe in winter tyres. I just adapted my driving style to accomodate teh conditions. This winter I conceeded and bought a set of Nokian WR winter tyres 215/40/17 and I am glad I did, they are alot better than I expected, shortly after getting them fitted we had 2 weeks of snow and I found driving around in teh snow was alot easier and more pleasurable, when the snow turned to slush and then into ice I was still driving round like it was clear, not as fast but alot quicker than in previous years, last week I was out in the snow accelerating hard and breaking to see what happens and I had no probs at all, in previous years I could not stop and the ABS was useless and had to be disabled.
I don't think driver education is needed, I think driver common sense is needed, peopel need to be responsible for their own self preservation. Personaly! NOW! I would have winter tyres and maybe go for a bit of aditional training as I want someone to show me how to drive my car properly. But I also have the common sense to change my driving style to suit the conditions.
11 February 2005, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sith
Black ice is just that. Ice that is black and matches the road surface so you can't see it.
But people say its black ice as it covers up their embarrasment?
11 February 2005, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Geek Boy
So its normal ice then?
But people say its black ice as it covers up their embarrasment?
But people say its black ice as it covers up their embarrasment?
11 February 2005, 02:22 PM
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That's correct. I suspect the molecular makeup would look the same as any other ice, (i.e. water). The appearance is decided by the way it is formed and the way it lays on the road surface. I've seen it form in such a way that you could only make it out by getting down on you hands and knees to have a closer look. Still as slippery as hell though...
11 February 2005, 02:52 PM
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Road surfaces have imperfections in them. Those imperfections are filled up by a little water. That ices up thus making the road surface smooth. So, the low areas are filed up with ice and the highest points are at the same level as the ice is at.....(bare with me). So, road looks the same but in fact, there is loads of "ice" on the road - minimal......but enough.
11 February 2005, 03:13 PM
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LOL at the the whole "you brits and your crap adverse weather driving"
Wurzel, give it a rest mate
Winter tyres would make no difference on black ice. Nor does "assuming it will be slippy and driving accordingly"
Well, thats not totally true - slowing down just means you hit the tree/wall/bank/car a bit slower.
Years ago, at 25 mph (driving carefully because it was cold) I stuffed my mothers car into a grass bank on a gentle uphill curve. Unfortunately there was a broken fence post hidden in the bank
Anyway, when I reversed out, the car then started to slide sideways down the hill. Actually, very slight rise would be more appropriate.
Got it stopped, got out the car and promptly fell flat on my ****, unable to stand. there was a sheet of black ice on the road.
Unfortunately my efforts to slow other cars down that were coming the other way were unsuccessful and there were a succession of crashes with each new car that came along.
Luckily, I had parked round the corner at this point.
There was nothing, and I repeat, nothing, that anyone could do to stop it. Its quite a surreal experience sliding sideways, unable to do anything, at probably less than 1 mph.
Certainly not winter tyres, or any amount of ability.
Wurzel, give it a rest mate
Winter tyres would make no difference on black ice. Nor does "assuming it will be slippy and driving accordingly"
Well, thats not totally true - slowing down just means you hit the tree/wall/bank/car a bit slower.
Years ago, at 25 mph (driving carefully because it was cold) I stuffed my mothers car into a grass bank on a gentle uphill curve. Unfortunately there was a broken fence post hidden in the bank
Anyway, when I reversed out, the car then started to slide sideways down the hill. Actually, very slight rise would be more appropriate.
Got it stopped, got out the car and promptly fell flat on my ****, unable to stand. there was a sheet of black ice on the road.
Unfortunately my efforts to slow other cars down that were coming the other way were unsuccessful and there were a succession of crashes with each new car that came along.
Luckily, I had parked round the corner at this point.
There was nothing, and I repeat, nothing, that anyone could do to stop it. Its quite a surreal experience sliding sideways, unable to do anything, at probably less than 1 mph.
Certainly not winter tyres, or any amount of ability.
11 February 2005, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Years ago, at 25 mph (driving carefully because it was cold) I stuffed my mothers car into a grass bank on a gentle uphill curve. Unfortunately there was a broken fence post hidden in the bank
Anyway, when I reversed out, the car then started to slide sideways down the hill. Actually, very slight rise would be more appropriate.
Got it stopped, got out the car and promptly fell flat on my ****, unable to stand. there was a sheet of black ice on the road.
Unfortunately my efforts to slow other cars down that were coming the other way were unsuccessful and there were a succession of crashes with each new car that came along.
Luckily, I had parked round the corner at this point.
There was nothing, and I repeat, nothing, that anyone could do to stop it. Its quite a surreal experience sliding sideways, unable to do anything, at probably less than 1 mph.
Certainly not winter tyres, or any amount of ability.
My only (so far) accident in 30 years of driving.