Guantanamo "britains" return home....
25 January 2005, 06:15 PM
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Guantanamo "britains" return home....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4204041.stm
I dont like the way this gets reported - its as if everyone in the UK is 'happy to see these people back on UK soil at last' sort of thing?
They'd better have some seriously good excuses as to why they were where they were; "I was at an Iraqi fancy dress party in my terrorist costume - didnt know there was a war on" - probably be good enough to convince the judges who'll be scared to question their stories too much in case they get accused of being un-PC
There've been plenty of cases of UK Islamic extremists going out to fight, and even in cases where they've been captured by UK/US troops theyre allowed to return to the UK and arent tried for treason?? Why??
I dont like the way this gets reported - its as if everyone in the UK is 'happy to see these people back on UK soil at last' sort of thing?
They'd better have some seriously good excuses as to why they were where they were; "I was at an Iraqi fancy dress party in my terrorist costume - didnt know there was a war on" - probably be good enough to convince the judges who'll be scared to question their stories too much in case they get accused of being un-PC
There've been plenty of cases of UK Islamic extremists going out to fight, and even in cases where they've been captured by UK/US troops theyre allowed to return to the UK and arent tried for treason?? Why??
25 January 2005, 06:19 PM
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Pete, the Americans have held them for 3 years without even charging them with anything. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us as to why they're guilty, and of what? As you're clearly considerably better than the entire US intelligence machine...
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25 January 2005, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
Pete, the Americans have held them for 3 years without even charging them with anything.
Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us as to why they're guilty, and of what?
25 January 2005, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fatscoobyfella
They werent upto any good thats for sure,lets just have them back here to sponge off us a bit more.Good old "PC" blighty!!
25 January 2005, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Petem95
Maybe they are innocent and had just gone to Iraq for a teaparty or whatever they claim, but I dont think these people were picked up there for no reason.
25 January 2005, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by scoob_babe
cos there's an election looming and Mr Bliar wants to be everyone's friend 
Chip
25 January 2005, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gsm1
I'm not the one making statements without even knowing the facts.
Odd ones out :
Jeremy Smythe
William Davidson
Nicholas Payne
Moazzam Begg
Martin Mubanga
Feroz Abbasi
David Johnson
Michael Flint
Dean Jones.
25 January 2005, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBigMan
Don't look or sound very Britiish though do they.
Odd ones out :
Jeremy Smythe
William Davidson
Nicholas Payne
Moazzam Begg
Martin Mubanga
Feroz Abbasi
David Johnson
Michael Flint
Dean Jones.
Odd ones out :
Jeremy Smythe
William Davidson
Nicholas Payne
Moazzam Begg
Martin Mubanga
Feroz Abbasi
David Johnson
Michael Flint
Dean Jones.
Is the odd one out Dean Jones as I think he may come from Wales
Chip
25 January 2005, 06:54 PM
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I never said i knew the facts,i said they will be sponging off the taxpayer,of that there will be no doubt..If they wasnt doing it before they buggered off for tea and biscuits,then they will be know..
25 January 2005, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chip
Is the odd one out Dean Jones as I think he may come from Wales
Chip
Chip
The others are all 100% thoroughbred Brits to the bone.
25 January 2005, 07:23 PM
#23
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I have never heard so much ignorant crap in my entire life!!
Do you people even know the facts!! Or are you basing your views on what you have heard on the T.V. or what you have read in the newspaper!
First of all the American government held the detainees for 3 years without trial! this breaks the Geneva Conventions right to a fair trial and the treatment of POW's. They were not told why they were held, had no right to phone calls, lawyers, visits etc...all the time being tortured and interrogated. Even serial rapists, murderers and child molesters have these basic rights!!
Now three years on they have been released, why?? Do you think if they were really guilty America would have ever released them? Even our own MI5 intensively questioned them with no proof to charge them with anything!! No proof like the so-called WMD's being stock pilled in Iraq.
Its a shame how the American government can change the law to suit them such as allowing the arrest and the ability to detain without trial and jury just on suspicion. All this in the "War against terror"!
You have to ask yourself what is terror?? is terror dropping 1000lbs bombs on a country, destroying hospitals and schools because of suspicion. Is terror the killing of nearly 50,000 people in Afghanistan to find one man, with 80% of those dead being women and children, all in the name of peace and democracy. Its strange how America love peace so much, yet since World War 2 they have bombed 43 countries with 70% of arms being used today in the world of USA military issue.
Don’t get me wrong though people, if anyone from this country, born and bred goes abroad to kill our own soldiers, they should be arrested, questioned, brought to trial in front of a judge and jury, proven guilty and punished accordingly.
I don’t want to get into row about current affairs, as what’s happening today has been happening for years, oppression of the weak by the strong, and to be honest most people are too ignorant for me to have a debate with, not even having a shred of knowledge to the real facts, merely brainwashed zombies being controlled in the masses through what they have heard and seen on the news whilst having dinner on an evening.
And as far as being British?? what’s that?? How can you define Britishness?? Is Britishness a pint of larger and a sausage roll, or should Britishness be the collaboration of many cultures and creeds, living in peace and harmony together in a democratic society!
Peace to all
Do you people even know the facts!! Or are you basing your views on what you have heard on the T.V. or what you have read in the newspaper!
First of all the American government held the detainees for 3 years without trial! this breaks the Geneva Conventions right to a fair trial and the treatment of POW's. They were not told why they were held, had no right to phone calls, lawyers, visits etc...all the time being tortured and interrogated. Even serial rapists, murderers and child molesters have these basic rights!!
Now three years on they have been released, why?? Do you think if they were really guilty America would have ever released them? Even our own MI5 intensively questioned them with no proof to charge them with anything!! No proof like the so-called WMD's being stock pilled in Iraq.
Its a shame how the American government can change the law to suit them such as allowing the arrest and the ability to detain without trial and jury just on suspicion. All this in the "War against terror"!
You have to ask yourself what is terror?? is terror dropping 1000lbs bombs on a country, destroying hospitals and schools because of suspicion. Is terror the killing of nearly 50,000 people in Afghanistan to find one man, with 80% of those dead being women and children, all in the name of peace and democracy. Its strange how America love peace so much, yet since World War 2 they have bombed 43 countries with 70% of arms being used today in the world of USA military issue.
Don’t get me wrong though people, if anyone from this country, born and bred goes abroad to kill our own soldiers, they should be arrested, questioned, brought to trial in front of a judge and jury, proven guilty and punished accordingly.
I don’t want to get into row about current affairs, as what’s happening today has been happening for years, oppression of the weak by the strong, and to be honest most people are too ignorant for me to have a debate with, not even having a shred of knowledge to the real facts, merely brainwashed zombies being controlled in the masses through what they have heard and seen on the news whilst having dinner on an evening.
And as far as being British?? what’s that?? How can you define Britishness?? Is Britishness a pint of larger and a sausage roll, or should Britishness be the collaboration of many cultures and creeds, living in peace and harmony together in a democratic society!
Peace to all
Last edited by morpheus1870; 25 January 2005 at 07:30 PM.
25 January 2005, 07:31 PM
#24
FIFO
Whilst it might be wrong to hold some individuals without trial it might be even more wrong for the minority to set them free. Personally I'd rather err on the side of the majority for cases where such a British citizen is picked up in a war zone. There aren't too many innocents wandering around in such circumstances.
I know this view might upset the SN lefty sandal-wearing liberals (of which there are many) but so be it. I would also love to live in a world where everyone could be given the benefit of the doubt regardless of their colour or religious beliefs, but Sept 11th and Madrid changed that a little.
Suresh,
not a very British sounding name either
I know this view might upset the SN lefty sandal-wearing liberals (of which there are many) but so be it. I would also love to live in a world where everyone could be given the benefit of the doubt regardless of their colour or religious beliefs, but Sept 11th and Madrid changed that a little.
Suresh,
not a very British sounding name either
25 January 2005, 07:31 PM
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Personally, I prefer a form of democracy whether innocent or not, whereby you get to defend yourself in a court of law. The type of democracy where the alleged terrorists are tortured, denied legal access or visitation rights for months on end is not in my mind a democracy - its the sort of barbaric practice normally associated with third world despots who deny their citizens basic human rights.
Hard to believe this was America. Can you imaging the outcry if the UK arrested US citizens and subjected them to the same situation?
Hard to believe this was America. Can you imaging the outcry if the UK arrested US citizens and subjected them to the same situation?
25 January 2005, 07:38 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Suresh
Personally I'd rather err on the side of the majority for cases where such a British citizen is picked up in a war zone. There aren't too many innocents wandering around in such circumstances.
Second, there is a MASSIVE difference between being in a war zone, or even fighting in one, and being a terrorist. In case you'd forgotten, the US invaded a sovereign country: the Afghans were perfectly entitled to defend themselves, and if someone wanted to go over there and help that is fine too. If the UK invaded Eire to wipe out IRA (Terrorists I hope you'll agree) bases, do you see anything wrong in Irish Americans coming over to help? It might make them stupid (that's a personal opinion) but it does NOT make them terrorists.
And if holding people without trial for three years is fine, I take it you have no problem in the police holding you for three years without trial? All I have to do is tell the police I saw you post about causing an explosion and inside you go.
M
25 January 2005, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Suresh
Whilst it might be wrong to hold some individuals without trial it might be even more wrong for the minority to set them free.
Tonight is the first time that they have been arrested at Northwood. This is the first time in over three years that they have benefited from a decent democratic process which says it all really.
25 January 2005, 07:44 PM
#29
Sandal attack
Originally Posted by _Meridian_
And if holding people without trial for three years is fine, I take it you have no problem in the police holding you for three years without trial?
M
25 January 2005, 07:45 PM
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Some of those in Guantanamo were there for the thinnest of reasons. Arghan tribal leaders were given incentives to hand over non-Afghan men to the US CIA/military and didn't really care if they were taliban supporters or not.
So men against whom there was no evidence they supported terrorism or the taliban found themselves cuffed and hooded and whisked off to Cuba. I'm sure they caught some hard line extremists and terrorists when they did that, but they also swept up innocents too and detained them for 3 years without basic human rights. That's simply not acceptable behaviour from the "leader of the free world".
So men against whom there was no evidence they supported terrorism or the taliban found themselves cuffed and hooded and whisked off to Cuba. I'm sure they caught some hard line extremists and terrorists when they did that, but they also swept up innocents too and detained them for 3 years without basic human rights. That's simply not acceptable behaviour from the "leader of the free world".