Bubba po

In the car on the way to w**k this morning. In some ways it's an uplifting experience, in others it's really depressing. First three songs:- "Roxanne"; "Can't Stand Losing You"; "So Lonely".

These three songs are sublime... the sparse production leaves you able to hear the actual performance of the band. Every bit of Copeland's fantastic drumming is audible, as is every other instrument. Sting's voice creaks and squeaks, but delivers a really outstanding performance.

It goes downhill from here, a bit. "Message in a Bottle" and "Walking on the Moon" are ok, but the warning signs of turgidity are there. Then it all goes horribly wrong. Everything is smothered in horrible 80's production with gated electronic snare drums, stifling keyboard washes and the voice immersed to the point of drowning in reverb. What were they all thinking? The lowest point of the ****ewards descent is without doubt the "Don't Stand So Close to Me" special mix. Every member of the band, every production engineer and their families, the producer, the studio tea lady and every record company executive that allowed this debacle should be taken out and gassed for this.

Rant over, but does anyone else have this observation about other bands that started off good then went utterly sheeite? U2 and REM spring to mind.

the moose

Disagree, Bubba.

I hated the original U2, and still think Under A Blood Red Sky was a low point of my student days. Achtung Baby was stunning, and still is, though it's a career high point I'm not sure they'll match

REM - best album by miles is New Adventures In Hifi, particularly Leave, though later stuff has palled rather.

Mind you, The Police went horribly wrong once Sting realised that he was bigger than the band - I Hope The Russians Love Their Children Too is so buttock-clenchingly ghastly I can't begin to describe it.

GaryK

Bubba,

Im a big police fan and agree. I think alot of it is to do with the time though, the police like many bands started out as a punk band so the rawness in the sound fitted that market although the 3 members musically were much more competent. Yep the remake of dont stand so is an abomination thats for sure. To really capture the essence and the phenomenal playing ability of the 3 you need the live stuff, you can get Police Live which is a 2 disc CD which has their real early stuff played in small venues in the states upto their last big concert at shea stadium. There was also a 1 hour concert done for german tv which is awesome that has been aired on VH1 several times and you can also get Police Live on DVD which has interviews as well as their performance on the old grey whistle test.

If you want to go back to the early early days try and search out something called 'Strontium 90 - Police Acedamy' which has sting and summers not sure if copeland is there doing raw versions of tracks that ended up being police songs, most noticeably a completely awe inspiring acoustic version of 'every little thing....'

Gary
(self confessed Police anorak!)

Bubba po

I suppose really I'm arguing for honest music, where if you play cr@ply, you are under the microscope and there's no wriggling out of it. Similarly, if you are an outstanding musician, as every member of the Police was, then the audience should be able to hear it... what would any of the early Police stuff be without Copeland's superb cymbal w**k?

I loved early REM, up to Green. The next album was where they took off and where most people started. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're rubbish then, just not what I was looking for in a band.

Bubba po

I've always liked the Police, but I've recently sought them out because my son is learning drums and I wanted him to hear something that was worth aspiring to. He's fallen for the early stuff in a big way.

GaryK

Bubba,

Yep I played drums for a few years after hearing copeland! He was always criticised for speeding up but I think thats because I dont think I have ever seen a drummer play with as much passion as he does, technically there are better drummers but for me he is king esp. on the live stuff just awesome.

Gary

Bubba po

Well I would call speeding up and slowing down of a tempo a legitimate part of the dynamic of the music. Particularly when practised by someone as talented as Copeland. Click tracks are the w**k of Satan, as are drum machines generally.

I listen to that early stuff and he alters the rhythmic pattern of hi hat and ride at will; where less flexible and technical drummers might consider that kind of thing a bit slack, he makes it the backbone of the song. It's that "feel", for want of a better word, that separates genius musicians from the merely competent. Dave Gilmour has the same kind of talent- he plays slowly, but it's the feel that counts. I've tried to play some of his leads and they're laughably difficult to get even remotely close to.

And Andy Summers is out of the same mould. Probably one of the most underrated guitarists ever.

the moose

Y'see, I would say that. I loathed with an absolute passion their soft, cuddly songs. Sidewinder Sleeps Tonight? Jesus fooking wept, if that's not the worst song in the whole world ever it's only because The Cheeky Girls came along a few years later. Then again, they never pretended to be serious musicians.

A couple for the "they started well, and fell off a cliff" file

Rolling Stones
Oasis
Manics
Radiohead - Hail To The Thief has a good title, but that's it
Eminem
Pet Shop Boys (seriously, the early stuff is excellent)
Prince

****, this list could go on and on ...... that's my afternoon wiped out!

TelBoy

Everyone's a music expert. The fact is, Automatic For The People was a hugely successful album, and still features highly in many all-time lists. So either an awful lot of people are massively wrong or it's what the public actually want to listen to. Who knows?

Regarding The Police, Walking On The Moon was my personal favourite.

the moose

Tel, Britney Spears is hugely successful, but even she wouldn't claim to be anything other than pop product. It's what the public wants to listen to, and that's fine, but then there's a lot of Carling drunk every week and no-one would claim it to be a quality product.

Essentially, Stipe and the boys sold the idea of credible-but-poppy records to the masses, and good luck to them. I didn't think they were selling out - the more people who buy a great record the better, I'd say - but I just thought the songs lacked passion and were considerably worse than their previous work.

Bland sells, sad to say.

Bubba po

The moment the music gets away from the sound of a few blokes (or wimmin) playing their instruments well and being recorded brilliantly, the less I like it. This opinion doesn't count for acts like Portishead who actually use the high tech equipment in a low-tech musicianly way. The skill of the chap doing the scratching and sampling is top-notch, but they have superb musicians and singers as well.

Bubba po

I'm going to seek out some live DVDs of the Police. Any recommendations?

GaryK

Well Ive got Police Live! on 2 disc video CD seems you cant get it as a DVD and I bought one last year, cant remember the title I think its The Police: The Classics and I cant find that anywhere either

Gary

dpb

all downhill after Roxanne .. ............but then youve heard all that before...

Bubba po

Gary, Is it possible to convert video cd to dvd?

Oh, and dpb... Roxanne is up there with "Another girl Another Planet", "Airbag" and "Watching the Detectives" in my top ten.

carl

Personally, I'm not sure there are any Police songs I don't like, although I haven't heard the "special" version of "Dont Stand So..."

Of course Stewart Copeland went on to compose the theme songs to many TV shows including "Droids" (R2D2/C3PO cartoon) and "The Equalizer".

Bubba po

Carl, It's just overblown and turgid... and they've replaced Copeland with a gated snare drum-machine (sorry for the studio-tech jargon, but it's the horrible 80's sound favoured by Phil Collins et al).

kbsub

I was a big Police fan , and thought Copeland on Demolition Man ( Ghost in the Machine ?) was at his best , some of the best drumming ive ever heard , come to think of it i have not heard it for about 15 - 20 years anyone got a copy ?

Freak

lol
Thats because Phil collins was also produced by Hugh Padgham, and that is pretty much his trademark sound. It is all over a lot of the stuff he has mixed/produced/engineered.
That was the 'in' sound at the time remember.

Even 'every breath' has a gated snare.... its just quite low in the mix- still clearly audible though.
Im a total geek for this btw- comes with the job and the degree.

/nerd mode

Freak- dj+ studio engineer/producer+drummer (grade 8)

p.s- copeland is awesome.

Bubba po

Hugh Padgham, eh?

[makes note] I don't suppose you know where he lives, do you? What's his personal security like?