Noisy Neighbours - what to do?
21 December 2004, 02:13 PM
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Noisy Neighbours - what to do?
Thanks for reading,
My girlfriend has recently (6months ago) bought and moved into a new flat in a brand new development. It's a ground floor 'executive' flat and is a nice roomy 2 bedroomed flat. She's got the usual snagging issues but that's not really the worst problem. Her neighbours across the hall are two guys in their early 20's who work offshore. They have a 3weeks off 2 weeks on shift pattern and for the 3 weeks they're away it's bliss. However, when they're back they party EVERY night without fail. Now, i understand that working away from home is hard and that you'll want to spend as much time enjoying yourself when you're back but they surely need to have some consideration for their neighbours. The typical day for them is loud music starting at midday when a lot of their buddies come round for a few sociable drinks. Then when she gets back from work their mates are usually pretty drunk and smoking in the communal hallway as they don't want smoke in their flat. However, the smoke seems to get everywhere and as there's no ventilation it hangs about i the hall and gets into my g/f's flat (we're both non-smokers) which upsets her as the stale smell makes her feel ill. Then more of their mates come round once they've finished their work and start drinking. They party at the flat with very loud music until around 10pm at which point they head for town. They then return at 3 - 4am as a large group and proceed to have another louder party where girls run around screaming and fighting/arguing. They usually settle down around 5 - 6am and are quiet until midday when the party starts again.
In the past my g/f has written them a very friendly note pointing out she has a job and needs to be able to sleep and that their mates still find it funny to press all the buzzers in the complex as a dare. She got a nice reply from the guy saying her was very sorry and it won't happen again as it was just a one off. We thought that was great until that night they did the same thing only louder! We called the police and explained to them that we were somewhat annoyed at the fact there was a huge party going on and it was 2.30am. The police arrive 15mins later (well done!) and stopped the party. The guys apologised again and the partygoers dispersed. It was three whole days before their next party where someone thought it would be a laugh to smear vaseline all over my g/f's door and all her windows!! I was livid and walked straight into their flat when she called me at 7am to tell me. They were all sleeping in the living room so nudged each one until they (7 of them) were awake and asked who was responsible. I explained that i would happily call the police to see what they thought of it and suggested they had it all cleaned up in the next hour as i would be back to check (i own a business only 10mins from her flat). Luckily for them they cleaned it up and apologised to her again in the form of a letter.
Since the incidents above, the police have been out to the flat a further three times and each time agreed that the noise was unacceptable. However, they've told us on each occasion that it can't go any further as the guys never refuse to turn down their stereo so it can't be confiscated. They say the noise of people is unfortunate but they don't have the power to do anything about them and it's up to us to sort them out.
It now also transpires that one of the mates is a police officer although we're not sure if that's had any bearing on any of the police visits.
Now, my g/f is really disillusioned with the whole affair and has said she wants to sell the flat and be done with it. However, it has now been suggested to her that she must declare she has noisy neighbours to any potential buyers!!
The questions i have are as follows:
Is there anything more (legally) she can do to stop these tw@ts? (other than the council - explained below)
What would you suggest if you wanted to remain living there?
Is it true that you must declare noisy neighbours to the buyers? I can understand you need to if there are proceedings against them (Council noise orders) but even if only the police have been called?
Are there any other suggestions people can offer. She's really upset and having paid £140k for the flat she's a tad annoyed at the quality of neighbour!!
Cheers
James
My girlfriend has recently (6months ago) bought and moved into a new flat in a brand new development. It's a ground floor 'executive' flat and is a nice roomy 2 bedroomed flat. She's got the usual snagging issues but that's not really the worst problem. Her neighbours across the hall are two guys in their early 20's who work offshore. They have a 3weeks off 2 weeks on shift pattern and for the 3 weeks they're away it's bliss. However, when they're back they party EVERY night without fail. Now, i understand that working away from home is hard and that you'll want to spend as much time enjoying yourself when you're back but they surely need to have some consideration for their neighbours. The typical day for them is loud music starting at midday when a lot of their buddies come round for a few sociable drinks. Then when she gets back from work their mates are usually pretty drunk and smoking in the communal hallway as they don't want smoke in their flat. However, the smoke seems to get everywhere and as there's no ventilation it hangs about i the hall and gets into my g/f's flat (we're both non-smokers) which upsets her as the stale smell makes her feel ill. Then more of their mates come round once they've finished their work and start drinking. They party at the flat with very loud music until around 10pm at which point they head for town. They then return at 3 - 4am as a large group and proceed to have another louder party where girls run around screaming and fighting/arguing. They usually settle down around 5 - 6am and are quiet until midday when the party starts again.
In the past my g/f has written them a very friendly note pointing out she has a job and needs to be able to sleep and that their mates still find it funny to press all the buzzers in the complex as a dare. She got a nice reply from the guy saying her was very sorry and it won't happen again as it was just a one off. We thought that was great until that night they did the same thing only louder! We called the police and explained to them that we were somewhat annoyed at the fact there was a huge party going on and it was 2.30am. The police arrive 15mins later (well done!) and stopped the party. The guys apologised again and the partygoers dispersed. It was three whole days before their next party where someone thought it would be a laugh to smear vaseline all over my g/f's door and all her windows!! I was livid and walked straight into their flat when she called me at 7am to tell me. They were all sleeping in the living room so nudged each one until they (7 of them) were awake and asked who was responsible. I explained that i would happily call the police to see what they thought of it and suggested they had it all cleaned up in the next hour as i would be back to check (i own a business only 10mins from her flat). Luckily for them they cleaned it up and apologised to her again in the form of a letter.
Since the incidents above, the police have been out to the flat a further three times and each time agreed that the noise was unacceptable. However, they've told us on each occasion that it can't go any further as the guys never refuse to turn down their stereo so it can't be confiscated. They say the noise of people is unfortunate but they don't have the power to do anything about them and it's up to us to sort them out.
It now also transpires that one of the mates is a police officer although we're not sure if that's had any bearing on any of the police visits.
Now, my g/f is really disillusioned with the whole affair and has said she wants to sell the flat and be done with it. However, it has now been suggested to her that she must declare she has noisy neighbours to any potential buyers!!
The questions i have are as follows:
Is there anything more (legally) she can do to stop these tw@ts? (other than the council - explained below)
What would you suggest if you wanted to remain living there?
Is it true that you must declare noisy neighbours to the buyers? I can understand you need to if there are proceedings against them (Council noise orders) but even if only the police have been called?
Are there any other suggestions people can offer. She's really upset and having paid £140k for the flat she's a tad annoyed at the quality of neighbour!!
Cheers
James
21 December 2004, 02:19 PM
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It sounds to me like you have been more than reasonable on several fronts. If it is a "managed" house, perhaps a complaint to the holding company ? I would go and have a chat with CAB as they are usually quite helpful.
HIH
Stuey
HIH
Stuey
21 December 2004, 02:25 PM
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has she spoken to other neighbours, banded together/stronger voice?
And as below I thiught flats were usually long term lease therefore talk to holding company.
And as below I thiught flats were usually long term lease therefore talk to holding company.
21 December 2004, 02:29 PM
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Isnt it the council that come out and measure the noise levels and after numerous calls have been made any noise louder than xxxdecibels the equipement can be confiscated on the spot.
the guys do sound reasonable to an extent, just ignorant maybe to the neighbours comfort......
the guys do sound reasonable to an extent, just ignorant maybe to the neighbours comfort......
21 December 2004, 02:33 PM
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Thanks Stuey,
Each flat is privately owned but there is a factor involved for the general maintenance and upkeep of the property. I'm not sure quite how helpful they'll be though as they seem a little disinterested in the property to be honest.
Yes, i think we've been more than reasonable about the situation and have given them more than enough opportunity to adjust there ways but to no avail. I think they believe that the three weeks away justifies them to party when they're home regardless of how much it disturbs the neighbours. There are other neighbours involved but they're less concerned as they live above the noise and the main problem is actually the hallway outside our door.
I've bought a house and was considering letting it out but after this i'm considering moving in with my g/f and not having to worry. The only problem is that i don't want her letting out a flat to a tenant that's going to complain every other week or to sell it to someone that then drags her through the courts for not disclosing fully a dispute with her neighbours.
AAAARRRGGGHH!!
James
Each flat is privately owned but there is a factor involved for the general maintenance and upkeep of the property. I'm not sure quite how helpful they'll be though as they seem a little disinterested in the property to be honest.
Yes, i think we've been more than reasonable about the situation and have given them more than enough opportunity to adjust there ways but to no avail. I think they believe that the three weeks away justifies them to party when they're home regardless of how much it disturbs the neighbours. There are other neighbours involved but they're less concerned as they live above the noise and the main problem is actually the hallway outside our door.
I've bought a house and was considering letting it out but after this i'm considering moving in with my g/f and not having to worry. The only problem is that i don't want her letting out a flat to a tenant that's going to complain every other week or to sell it to someone that then drags her through the courts for not disclosing fully a dispute with her neighbours.
AAAARRRGGGHH!!
James
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21 December 2004, 02:33 PM
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get environmentla health involved they will help with noise aswell as any other issues. Also she needs to keep a log of everything times dates etc this will help her case with environmental health I suggest she starts the diary straight away.
21 December 2004, 02:33 PM
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Likewise, I think it may be worth getting in contact with the company that 'manages' the property (I presume she pays a monthly/yearly management fee). It may well be that the noisy buggers are in violation of their lease/transfer agreement by smoking in communal areas, noise, vandalism, etc. Most agreements contain covenants requiring the owner to be responsible for the conduct of all persons occupying their property, especially with regard to noise during unsociable hours. They should be able to enforce this on the noisy residents - I guess this is part of what the management fee pays for.
Good luck to your girlfriend. Sounds like a total nightmare.
Good luck to your girlfriend. Sounds like a total nightmare.
21 December 2004, 02:35 PM
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Another vote for speaking to the council's enviro health dept and keeping a diary of dates, times, incidents etc.
As for somebody smoking in the corridor, wait until next time and empty a bucket of water over them claiming it's a fire hazard
As for somebody smoking in the corridor, wait until next time and empty a bucket of water over them claiming it's a fire hazard
21 December 2004, 02:41 PM
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there will be a "quiet enjoyment" clause in the lease. most competent developers will make sure the buyer has a copy of the lease (so i assume your g/f has a copy - if not speak to solicitor who acted in the purchase). i suggest you speak to the freeholder or the managing agent and refer to the above events, together with a list of times and dates if you can. they are clearly in breach of the quiet enjoyment clause (ie an obligation to hold and occupy the property in a manner not affecting anyone else's occupation of the adjoining properties). the managing agent should be able to do something about this. i have been there before so i know what it's like...
if you are selling, you do need to tell any purchaser about noise complaints. if they are official complaints. however, you could argue if challenged, that any complaints made direct to the occupiers were requests rather than complaints. i am not a lawyer so do not rely entirely on this - you may want to check it out with the relevant people. i understand that if you don't make official complaints (and the calls to the police may already have been classed as "official complaints"), then you are not obliged to reveal this to a buyer.
smoking in the hallway could, not sure but could, be classed as a fire risk. there will also be clauses in the lease about "tenant-like behaviour". you should check these.
Do you know if the occupiers are the owners or if they are renting? if renting, you could also complain to their landlord as well as the managing agent and freeholder.
Although none of the above will give you a quick fix to the problem, they are all worth checking out.
good luck (hope the noisy neighbours are away at christmas)
if you are selling, you do need to tell any purchaser about noise complaints. if they are official complaints. however, you could argue if challenged, that any complaints made direct to the occupiers were requests rather than complaints. i am not a lawyer so do not rely entirely on this - you may want to check it out with the relevant people. i understand that if you don't make official complaints (and the calls to the police may already have been classed as "official complaints"), then you are not obliged to reveal this to a buyer.
smoking in the hallway could, not sure but could, be classed as a fire risk. there will also be clauses in the lease about "tenant-like behaviour". you should check these.
Do you know if the occupiers are the owners or if they are renting? if renting, you could also complain to their landlord as well as the managing agent and freeholder.
Although none of the above will give you a quick fix to the problem, they are all worth checking out.
good luck (hope the noisy neighbours are away at christmas)
21 December 2004, 02:44 PM
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just thought...
in flats, we usually put all the elec and gas meters under the stairs or in one place. you could turn off their power at the meter...i know this has worked (at least temporarily) for other people
in flats, we usually put all the elec and gas meters under the stairs or in one place. you could turn off their power at the meter...i know this has worked (at least temporarily) for other people
21 December 2004, 02:47 PM
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Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'll get her to call the CAB to see what they recommend. The only problem she has is that if it's documented that she's made a complaint against her neighbours then she'll have to declare for sure, but if there is no 'official documented complaint' then i'd hope she wouldn't have to openly declare it. However, she realised that if was asked about the neighbours she would have to inform them about the noise.
It's just such a shame that these folk who don't care about the noise are holding her to ransom as if she complains officially then decides to sell up then she must declare it and risk losing value. At the same time if she chooses not to proceed with the further action then what's to say the noise doesn't get any worse.
There are a few avenues i can take to help out but they're rather underhand and i'm not keen to go down that route but it's becoming more and more tempting the longer this goes on.
I own a shipping company and have very good contacts in pretty much every offshore company in the area. I could find out where they work and do my best to make life difficult for them if they become worse. Also, it was actually my best friends father who built the development so he'll know who owns the flat (i suspect their parents) and contact could be made to discuss their children's behaviour.
Both of those scenarios would be last gasp efforts and i'm not wanting to proceed with them but i may be forced to if the issue doesn'e dissappear.
Cheers again for the advice.
James
It's just such a shame that these folk who don't care about the noise are holding her to ransom as if she complains officially then decides to sell up then she must declare it and risk losing value. At the same time if she chooses not to proceed with the further action then what's to say the noise doesn't get any worse.
There are a few avenues i can take to help out but they're rather underhand and i'm not keen to go down that route but it's becoming more and more tempting the longer this goes on.
I own a shipping company and have very good contacts in pretty much every offshore company in the area. I could find out where they work and do my best to make life difficult for them if they become worse. Also, it was actually my best friends father who built the development so he'll know who owns the flat (i suspect their parents) and contact could be made to discuss their children's behaviour.
Both of those scenarios would be last gasp efforts and i'm not wanting to proceed with them but i may be forced to if the issue doesn'e dissappear.
Cheers again for the advice.
James
21 December 2004, 02:57 PM
#17
If you have told your neighbours they are causing annoyance and they fail to do anything about you should go to the Managament company first. They have alot of influence and power particularly if the properties are leasehold (which most are). If its a leasehold then all people in your block are effectively renting (albeit very long term). The management company can evict etc.
Bob
Bob
21 December 2004, 03:07 PM
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Thanks all for the advice. I've cut and pasted it to her and she's had a read through. There are a few suggestions on there that she will follow up.
Thanks again!
James
*hmm....just need a fire extinguisher and a baseball bat.....suggestions?
Thanks again!
James
*hmm....just need a fire extinguisher and a baseball bat.....suggestions?
21 December 2004, 04:52 PM
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I know what I would do as it's a flat, usually the meter is in the outside in the hallway I would open it up a pull the main incoming 100amp fuse naughty but satisfying, then after a while take it back to them and next time you will not get it back, ask my neighbors Their house one is on the outside by their front door, they now have quiet party’s
Their house one is on the outside by their front door, they now have quiet party’s
21 December 2004, 05:09 PM
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If they are renting the flat, then speak to there letting company, if they get several complaints they can be evicted by there landlord!!
Smoking in a communal area is probably not allowed - so use this to your advantage when complaining.
They would soon stop if you phoned the police each time they did it! 7 times a week for 3 weeks would pi55 the police off no end (not you - the lads next door!) - police might take firmer action if they are able to!
Really annoying I know - (I have been there!) thin ceiling above me - not to the extent you are suffering and a few word sorted my problem!
Good luck and let us know when the ****s finally get the message.
Smoking in a communal area is probably not allowed - so use this to your advantage when complaining.
They would soon stop if you phoned the police each time they did it! 7 times a week for 3 weeks would pi55 the police off no end (not you - the lads next door!) - police might take firmer action if they are able to!
Really annoying I know - (I have been there!) thin ceiling above me - not to the extent you are suffering and a few word sorted my problem!
Good luck and let us know when the ****s finally get the message.
21 December 2004, 05:14 PM
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I sympathise with this situation as i was/is (still am, sort of) in a similar one myself.
I went down every route available without success; Quiet words with them, then the Residence Manager ('Can you put that in writing we will investigate it etc- nothing ever happened), letters etc and none worked.
What did work was threatening to throw the cheeky little b******s throught the window if they disturbed me again. And that did work.
Its not a nice position to be in and I dont usually advocate threats/violence but sometimes its the only thing people will understand
I went down every route available without success; Quiet words with them, then the Residence Manager ('Can you put that in writing we will investigate it etc- nothing ever happened), letters etc and none worked.
What did work was threatening to throw the cheeky little b******s throught the window if they disturbed me again. And that did work.
Its not a nice position to be in and I dont usually advocate threats/violence but sometimes its the only thing people will understand
21 December 2004, 06:00 PM
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They sound like renters. That sort of behaviourr is there trade mark!
Getting the details of the letting agent/landlord may be a challenge. Until a law is passed stopping people 'renting' we will all suffer. If you can't afford to buy ...
Getting the details of the letting agent/landlord may be a challenge. Until a law is passed stopping people 'renting' we will all suffer. If you can't afford to buy ...
21 December 2004, 06:00 PM
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We had a similar problem when we lived in our flat. 'Luckily' the tenant pita was renting. A few trips down to the letting agency with date/times etc plus an opportunistic visit by the agent ensured that the local Vet Surgery had their lease terminated. I think that by them also sub-letting to their vets also contravened a sub-letting clause too
This all happened before we sold so we just put down that problem neighbours had moved on, I didn't fancy the EH route but it nearly got there.
PS - the Management Company will have a list of all flat owners as this is something to do with the leasehold deeds of covenant etc - see how amenable they are. Ours helped us out with our problem!
This all happened before we sold so we just put down that problem neighbours had moved on, I didn't fancy the EH route but it nearly got there.
PS - the Management Company will have a list of all flat owners as this is something to do with the leasehold deeds of covenant etc - see how amenable they are. Ours helped us out with our problem!
21 December 2004, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RS2 JIM
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'll get her to call the CAB to see what they recommend. The only problem she has is that if it's documented that she's made a complaint against her neighbours then she'll have to declare for sure, but if there is no 'official documented complaint' then i'd hope she wouldn't have to openly declare it. However, she realised that if was asked about the neighbours she would have to inform them about the noise.
It's just such a shame that these folk who don't care about the noise are holding her to ransom as if she complains officially then decides to sell up then she must declare it and risk losing value. At the same time if she chooses not to proceed with the further action then what's to say the noise doesn't get any worse.
There are a few avenues i can take to help out but they're rather underhand and i'm not keen to go down that route but it's becoming more and more tempting the longer this goes on.
I own a shipping company and have very good contacts in pretty much every offshore company in the area. I could find out where they work and do my best to make life difficult for them if they become worse. Also, it was actually my best friends father who built the development so he'll know who owns the flat (i suspect their parents) and contact could be made to discuss their children's behaviour.
Both of those scenarios would be last gasp efforts and i'm not wanting to proceed with them but i may be forced to if the issue doesn'e dissappear.
Cheers again for the advice.
James
It's just such a shame that these folk who don't care about the noise are holding her to ransom as if she complains officially then decides to sell up then she must declare it and risk losing value. At the same time if she chooses not to proceed with the further action then what's to say the noise doesn't get any worse.
There are a few avenues i can take to help out but they're rather underhand and i'm not keen to go down that route but it's becoming more and more tempting the longer this goes on.
I own a shipping company and have very good contacts in pretty much every offshore company in the area. I could find out where they work and do my best to make life difficult for them if they become worse. Also, it was actually my best friends father who built the development so he'll know who owns the flat (i suspect their parents) and contact could be made to discuss their children's behaviour.
Both of those scenarios would be last gasp efforts and i'm not wanting to proceed with them but i may be forced to if the issue doesn'e dissappear.
Cheers again for the advice.
James
I have to say, I think you're being way too reasonable.
If I had this problem and was in your shoes, I'd start putting the screws on them: speak to those offshore contacts; get the parents involved (they'll be considering their investment; get Environmental Health involved.
If that fails, buy some baseball bats and invite US round for a party in your G/F's flat!
21 December 2004, 06:49 PM
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Sorry m8 but I used to be a nice reasonable guy & got nowhere.
Now I'm not reasonable.
1. Tell them as mentioned before it is now personal & threaten to disrupt their lives by the means you and others have mentioned.
2. They are away for 3 weeks?? No one in their flat?? Seems a no brainer to me.
As long as no witnesses to the above then should'nt be a problem. People like that deserve all they get. As a start I would have a loud party from 7am - 12 noon every day for a while. Let all the other neighbours know though. At these hours the EHO is not usually interested.
Alas
Now I'm not reasonable.
1. Tell them as mentioned before it is now personal & threaten to disrupt their lives by the means you and others have mentioned.
2. They are away for 3 weeks?? No one in their flat?? Seems a no brainer to me.
As long as no witnesses to the above then should'nt be a problem. People like that deserve all they get. As a start I would have a loud party from 7am - 12 noon every day for a while. Let all the other neighbours know though. At these hours the EHO is not usually interested.
Alas
