Diesel

Nasty question but it has to be asked >expect SERIOUS hostility D< in the face of the continuing colonisation of a once sovereign island - why on earth don’t the elected democratic leaders of Eire make more of a fuss? In the past they have left the issue up to the murdering ***** with guns (although it is now nice to see all 3 sides – resistance/terrorist/imperialist (and you can define who is who!) putting down the guns & bombs)



Surely the fastest growing (and possibly most charming!) economy in Europe could sensibly and diplomatic indicate that the Irish 'continent' should no longer be divided and semi ruled by an ex imperialistic nation and it’s offspring? This would give validity to the SAME sentiment covertly felt BY that ex-imperialistic bully boy nation itself!



The whole Irish government’s weak ‘I dunno’ position is almost as daft as the idea of Kent being colonised by an Irish/Dutch allegiance and then Mr Blair et all not even bothering to mention it…! ‘Outraged of Tunbridge Wells’ would have much more to say than Bertie Aherne I can tell you



Easy answer anyone? >ducks and dons suitable HEAVY attire <

pslewis

The North is owned and run by the UK, the people want to remain as such ...... anyone who doesn't like it can clear off South!!

Pete

bigsinky

it really gets on my **** the people who think they know the solution to the northern ireland problem. it has been a thorny issue since partition and i can't see it being resolved soon. having said that i think TB would be quite happy to see a united irealnd coz that would one less thing to worry about. if the nation of ireland was to become united then you would whould just have the UDA/UVF/UFF fighting the same war that the IRA/PIRA/INLA has fought for the last 35 years. the fight for independance is stong, but i think the prods still have the majority vote over the taigs. still its only a matter of time before we get outbred.

-bigot/flame suit well and truely zipped up.

Adrian F

TB would love a united Ireland he is busy trying to split the UK up and sell it out to Europe in return for a nice well paid job when he has finished destroying 1000's of years of history here.

douglasb

Bigsinky - I'd agree that TB would like to see a united Ireland as soon as possible as Mo Mowlam was probably the biggest **** licker that McGuinness/Adams ever had.

However, as TB's said that a united Ireland won't happen as long as the majority in the North vote against it, I agree that it isn't going to happen any time soon.

I'm also not convinced that the majority of people in the Republic want the island united at the moment. While discussing this over a few beers with an Irish colleague, his opinion was, "Ah right, Doug. In the heart of every Irishman, we'd like to see a united Ireland. But while we're paying the taxes that we are, and the unemployment in the north is what it is, we're quite happy to have the Brits picking up the bill. Maybe sometime in the future....."

fast bloke

Diesel - watch out for the full reply - I think I should be able to type it in about 400 years

Ireland (Eire) did have a constitutional claim on the North until 1998. After 30 years of paisley screaming about "Articles 2 and 3" the republib removed them from the constitution and paisley had to **** stir about marching down a road instead

I think that if Northern Ireland could have a fair system of govt, most people would prefer to be Northern Irish instead of Southern Irish (1% unemployment, 40% basic rate of tax, lower consumer taxes poor healthcare system) or British (higher unemployment, lower basic tax, higher consumer taxes, less poor healthcare system.)

The main reason for such low unemployment in the south is that the welfare system doesn't encourage 'inactivity' If you don't work you will be maintained at a level slightly above poverty, unlike the UK system where it can often be financially beneficial for people not to work. Anyone else like the southern system???



Pete - "The North is owned and run by the UK, the people want to remain as such ......"

erm - To quote the aforementioned Dr Paisley, NO, NO and NO.
no it isn't,
no it isn't and
no they don't

damian666

This is the same man who when commenting on church donations said he 'wanted to hear the rustle'

Nice chap

Diesel

Great insightful answers guys >dares to lift head up to peer over trench<

NotoriousREV

I think it's English opinions that have caused all this in the first place

I'd be happy to see Norn Iron back as part of a whole Ireland if thats what the folk that live there want.

David Lock

Since a lot/most of it is over principles I have wondered if it should become a united Ireland but the northern bit leased to the Brits for say 500 years, rather like Hong Kong. So the principle of the Irish to have their Island back is established but things carry on as they are. Sadly though Paisley would be the big obstacle here. DL

bigsinky

the Doc seems to have mellowed in his old age and is not so much of an obstacle as you would think. it's IP Jr that we need to worry about. now that is a dangerous man. chip off the old block and seems to be making himself into a bit of a rebel rouser.

Flatcapdriver

Dave, why would the UK want to lease Northern Ireland? It has no strategic value or material worth so it would just continue to be a burden on the UK economy which is partly why Eire doesn't want to get too involved too quickly.

Past colonial experience has taught the UK the value of passing the reigns of power over in a responsible and considered way and as much as the hysterical bunch want the Brits out, this isn't going to happen anytime soon and if they truly valued either a united Ireland or an independant Northern Ireland then they'd realise this. If the UK was to pull out tomorrow, it would leave a power vacuum that couldn't be filled democratically - just think about Zim as an example - and then for years to come NI would suffer from infighting plus the incessant whingeing about the UK selling the country down the river etc etc.

I think the fastbloke is the one to reply in full.

Leslie

How did Northern Ireland become British in the first place, and is it fair?

Les

jasey

The US are going to Invade Eire and put in an interim Government - That's how it works isn't it ???

Eire removed their claim to NI so they could get it back I suspect. If the Island or Ireland isn't united within the next 15 years I'l be very suprised - The climate seems to have changed significantly in the last 5-10 years.

Having said that - I'm not so sure the troubles are finished just yet .

Brendan Hughes

I'm amused by the phrase "once-sovereign island" - the book I read on the issue said the Brits have had their grubby fingers in Ireland since about the 12th century.

As bigsinky said, if it unites, you'll just get the protestants causing trouble, instead of the catholics. Am I right that the dispute is basically religious, rather than anyone's particular allegiance to the Queen and the UK?

Interesting idea about leasing it, and interesting reply. Why DO the Brits continue to hang on to NI? It used to be the shipping industry, I thought, but that's pretty much dead now. Oh, and "not giving in to terrorists", something I think/hope they don't have to worry about any more.

Flatcapdriver

Brendan. Re-read my post above.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I'd like to see the Irish army "force" a takeover of the 6 states! LOL

The NI economy is good for the South & vica-versa.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Les

Quickly (LOL in Irish politics) the Irish were given the right to self-determination back in the 20s but the way the government of the time fudged the issue & kept hold of all the industry was to let all the counties vote if they wanted partition or not. Of the NINE counties of Ulster, 6 voted to stay with the UK, the others joined with the remaining 23 and became a Commonwealth Country. That was repealed/ditched after a bloody civil war & the Republic declared later on.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Sorry - need to add another 700 years+ of history back to Edward Longbow invading + other "Anglo-Saxon" agressors over time...

Brit_in_Japan

I think some people are forgetting the majority of people in Northern Ireland who have UK passports and are quite happy with that fact. Yes a significant minority want to be reunited with the south or even made an independent country, but they are in the minority. What right do we, the people of England, Scotland and Wales, have to tell the people of Northern Ireland that they should be reunited with the south against their majority wishes? It's a matter for them.

David Lock

Can someone give a steer as to the actual facts regarding the views of citizens in Northern Ireland. For starters I assume everyone has a UK Passport or at least is entitled to one?

Again I thought the far greater majority in NI wanted NI to stay as it is and NOT become part of Eire.

The few Irish folk I have spoken to don't seem too bothered either way.

Is there a big call for a NI to do it's own thing like Scotland?

But as I said I invite someone to give some knowledgable guidance on this. DL

bigsinky

Brendan

to answer your question yes it is purely religion that fuels the sectarian war. the catholics/republicans would like to see a united ireland and have waged a so call guerrilla war with the occupying imperialist force of the British army for the last 35 years. as i said before if we go united, then you will just reverse the protestant/catholic roles and you will have the loyalist parmilitaries fighting for independance from a country(Eire). so basically same old $hite different beliefs.

cheers

sinky

urban

iTrader: (1)

Some have both passports David

I believe NI will do its own thing just like Scotland, personally I don't wish to see a united Ireland and thats not a religion issue, but for a whole lot of other reasons.

Shaun

Jerome

I imagine everyone in NI is entitled to a UK passport.

UK is short for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland after all...

Jiggerypokery

It is religion which fuels the most of the killings, but nationality which fuels the political process. There are many protestant nationalists and catholic unionists.

Brendan Hughes

OMG, that's why they don't hand it back! We'd go from being the UK to plain old GB! Think of the fuss in the international arena! Instead of sitting next to the USA we'd be plonked between Gibraltar and Greece!

GC8

Thats an extremely nationalistic and non-labour voting point of view there Pete.....

The only time for a united Ireland is surely when the majority of the residents in the North want it? At this rate with the higher birth rates of the catholic families it'll only be a few* years; then perhaps after a referendum they might re-unify.

*I read this in an extremely serious broadsheet article but I cant remember how many years it actually was.

Simon

Diesel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggerypokery

It is religion which fuels the most of the killings, but nationality which fuels the political process. There are many protestant nationalists and catholic unionists.

I always thought it was more about principles of returning taken land, allegiance to one nation over another (and the right to choose which one) and of course ownership of the turf itself? The religious labels that apply are much less relevant although they do conveniently define the likely opinions on the matter. After all, both sides are Christians... Is this appraisal right?

bigsinky

Yes but don't forget the 300 and odd year of Orange heritage. bit like jews and paestinians. we seem to hate each other with a passion. infact we kill each other simply for being born on the other side of the fence. Prods, taigs (yes i know it's spelt wrong, but the other way doesn't look right to me), loyalist, republican its all the same. too much money and power involved for it to be given up.

bigsinky

exactly what i said at the start of this thread. if they can't intimidate us out of Norn Iron, they will out breed us.