RayC

Watching the news this morning the infection MSRA kills about 5000 people a year, who would have otherwise been ok! UK has the dirtiest hospitals in Europe!

What do you think, attack the root of the problem, strict cleaning codes, invest in new cleaning agents, more beds to spread people out and reduce the risk of infection??

OR..

Speed cameras in the toilets to fine people who wash their hands too quickly!!

3 points and £60, get done 4 times and they stop you pissing for a year??

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Tell me about it My Gran has days to go and it looks like it's down to this She only went in for a heart op and that was a sucess but now they have no idea what's wrong with her and she has days to go

RayC

Sorry to hear that paul

I feel very frustrated at how the real issues are not addressed

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Thanks Ray I feel the same and did before I found this out last week. It makes me even more sick now

urban

iTrader: (1)

Both my parents died very recently in hospital due to infections

I don't think its just down to people not washing their hand either. But basic hygiene is very important.
In my opinion, its more a case of a decent fecking clean using germ killing detergents.


Shaun

ajm

I agree... it's easy to blame hospitals for being unclean, but when you get lots of ill people, many with lowered immune responses, open wounds etc then infections can and will spread.

They already do have quite stringent hygene procedures, unfortunately understaffing and lack of resources makes them almost impossible to adhere rigidly to. Add to that the fact that every time they treat an infection they risk the bacteria becoming immune to yet another antibiotic.

Its the very nature and setup of hospitals that the microbe exploits, not neccessarily gross negligence in cleaning.

Reffro

I was listening to a discussion about this on Five Live this morning and was sickened by what I was hearing.

Surely there must be a case for managers to be prosecuted for coporate manslaughter. MRSA is successfully managed abroad (MSRA affects 1% of Dutch hospitals, 44% here!!!!!!!), so it can be managed here, which means nobody cares about it. Its the same for the rail accidents, they knew the rails weren't good, or the points weren't installed incorrectly, and have been prosecuted. Surely its simple to prove that the managers of the NHS are deliberately ignoring known risk factors, and deaths are resulting from this.

imlach

The biggest source of cross-infection is bad hand hygiene by staff. MRSA does NOT walk around hospitals, nor does it transfer through air!

A dirty floor will NOT cause MRSA!!! Distancing the beds further apart will NOT solve the problem as MRSA does not walk as stated above!

Lack of handwashing between patients is part of the problem. So easy to do, but the docs & nurses & aux staff are taught in how to wash their hands.

Also, MSSA exists on your skin in a large percentage of the population - ie, you have it already. When your immune system is weakened, it will cause you problems.

Too easy to slag off the hospitals when you read too much in the press Most of the press articles are scaremongering & innaccurate.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Interestingly my local hospital (Hinchingbrooke in Huntingdon) dropped MRSA by screening visitors coming into the hospital. Apparantly rates have halved.


M

Jerome

MRSA stands for Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus, in case anyone was interested.

Buckrogers

Friend of mine, he dad has just found out he has it. Things don't look good as he is getting on a bit.

It's not on, basic hygene standards should reduce these deaths.

Still good old labour concentrating on speed cameras.

Vegescoob

I twigged this contradiction some three years ago. There have been many radio articles about this, some with Dr. Jonn Ried, the Secretary of State for Health on. With him saying he is going to sort it out.
The most telling for me was Claire Raynor, a qualified nurse, on the Jeremy Vine show saying she would avoid going near a hospital. She contracted MRSA in one.
Another NL success story.
Oh and it is debatable what the true figure for MRSA deaths are. They could be much higher than official figures suggest.

BOB.T

Surely if you go into hospital without a superbug and come out with a superbug, you have gained something, can we get a tax slapped on that somehow?

Markus

Ah good old MRSA.

As others have said, it's spread is mainly due to lack of hygine between seeing patients. Intollerable perhaps, but when you realize how understaffed hospitals are and the pressure nurses and doctors are under to see as many patients as possible, you start to see how not spending a few moments washing your hands after every patient factors into things.

I've read the odd press article, but I have another "source", as it were, that has told me far more and MRSA is quite rife, unfortunately.

Vegescoob

Confirms my view. Yet again the truth is not as those in power would have us believe.
As usual it all stinks.

imlach

Markus,

I have a VERY good source who works with MRSA every single day, and the misinformation in the press is beyond belief.

As I said, a dirty floor does not affect MRSA rates. Nor do blood stains on the walls. Yet these are always the areas the public/press focus in on when talking about MRSA. Your average Sun journalist knows **** all about MRSA to be honest.

Hand hygiene is key. The best thing YOU can do to protect yourself as a patient is to ensure YOU also ask the doctor/nurse/auxillary if they've washed their hands. This isn't the way it should be, but better safe than sorry

Sadly, there are no guarantees. The staff can do EVERYTHING in their power and correctly, and MRSA will still occur. There's no magic cure.

imlach

About nine patients in every 100 admitted to hospital gets an infection during their hospital stay. It has been estimated that only two of these (15%), can be prevented through improvements in infection control.

2 is still 2 too many, but not quite the disaster the press would have you believe.

Vegescoob

Ok. So why does this infection level seem to be worse in UK than in Europe?

unclebuck

Cleaning staff have been reduced by about 40% I believe.

But - everything is OK people because our wonderful Government have announced some new targets.

All those thousands of middle management types that infest the health service now have a new reason to hand out some more glossy leaflets.

Adrian F

I don’t understand how the Health service can be under resourced as New Labour has poured so much extra money all the beds should be gold plated where is all the money going? How can they be so bad at spending our Money? We work very hard to earn it and they just throw it around like confetti!

There is no excuse for poor Hygiene I think it is negligence and it should be treated as Manslaughter instead of being ignored. and the latest figures for deaths from infections caught in hospital is suppose to be nearer 20,000 and road deaths due to speeding about 350 a year! Still 5000 speed camera’s show where priorities lie. Oh and according to London Ambulance service Ken is killing 500 people a year with all the speed bumps, traffic calming in London.

Jerome

The money is going on middle managers who are more concerned about paper clips than they are about the health of patients (surely the point of the hospital being there). I can't remember the figures, but a disgusting percentage of NHS hospital spending goes on administration. For many hospitals, an increasing amount is also spent on legal fees/compensation.

Leslie

Couldn't believe it when they estimated 4 years for a signifant reduction of the infection. How long would it take to do a proper job of cleaning up a hospital and instituting effective prevention measures? 4 days, maybe a week if they really had the will to do it!

Very sorry about your Gran Paul, could so easily have happened to me too. I was lucky.

Les

imlach

The measures are put in place.
However, some health professionals (including doctors) either forget, or choose to ignore standards & guidelines.

Effective demonstrations are put in place using special indicators & UV lamps to demonstrate how quickly hand contact can spread over rooms/people. This is very effective training, but people so easily forget good hand hygiene when stressed or in a hurry.

Remember, MRSA is invisible. The public being the public however, will relate 'dirt' to MRSA. A dirty floor carries a very very low risk of being the cause of an MRSA infection. The invisible causes are the real problems (human to human transmission etc).

RayC

Its very disturbing how many people have experince of this on scoobynet

I hope i haven't caused any upset to those closest to the issue.

I still feel angered by how this sort of issue has been ignored by the government, i have had a very quick and not scientific flick through some information at it appears more money is spent on Domestic security, i.e hand outs than on hospitals, i find it very hard to say anything constructive on the subject and cant see a resolution.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

My Gran was actually diagnosed with this on Friday and died last night She originally went into a London hospital (best not say where) and got transferred to High Wycombe last Monday who looked after her until last night but it was too late

The really annoying thing is that last Monday at Wycombe I saw the state of her case that she had taken into hospital with her and it was brand new when she went in. It was absolutely filthy I thought it must have been stored in a basement or something but I found out on Thursday that it was stored next to her bed in the London hospital

RayC

Just before Xmas too

My condolences Paul

Ray

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

I know it's horrrible Ray My Dad is taking it pretty badly too and it's really going to hit him at Christmas

Thanks for your condolences though it's appreciated